I have heard many people say this, particularly instructors. It all has to do with the balancing act... Studying enough to do well, but not destroying ourselves in the process to get A's. I understand that Nursing students with C's are still nurses, and that the student who recieved the A wont necessarily be a "better nurse"... But doesnt it seem like they would be?
I am mainly asking this because at clinical, I sometimes feel stupid! And I know its mostly nerves... and inexperience, of course. I know I can (and will.... !) be a good nurse, but I am thinking of one girl inparticular who just seems to have it all together at clinical all the time.. Who gets the best grades in our class... Always knows the answers. Does this mean she will be a better nurse than I will? Sometimes, I feel inadequate. Not all the time. I know I am capable of being a nurse, but.... :imbar
So, I know that "nursing students with C's are still nurses"---But does that mean they will be mediocre compared to the A students?
I just finished a semester where out of 38 students, no one got an A as a final grade, one student got a B (by one point), the rest of us got a "C" .....that passed. Only 6 passed the final exam.
All nursing instructors/programs and properly structured exams, are not created equal. I think the overall grade distribution says quite a bit about the quality of the program.
If you have no one that is getting an A...then to me, it's a poorly structured program. An A should not be an impossible goal. If you have too many A's, then students are generally not being challenged enough.
Grades only tell part of the story.
FYI: Our passing standard is an 80 or above.
We had a pharmacy professor who did things like this, and the dean had to get involved because he really wasn't testing people; he was simply frustrating them.
One story that people talk about still was the year where 66 students out of 100 or so got D's in his class.
This whole thread reminds me of teacher competency tests. Huh? How can you determine from a test how well someone can teach? You can't! When I was a kid, there was a teacher who was squeezed out because she really couldn't teach, and you KNOW she knew her alphabet and basic math; IIRC she taught second grade.
C's should denote average. If EVERYONE is getting C's then the class is not being taught properly.
An A should be hard enough that only the students that shine should get them. If the majority of the class is getting A's then the professor is cheating them by not making the course challenging enough.
I have to say that 'clinical thinking' has come up quite a bit and with respect to what 'Stanley' said earlier about good test takers doing good on ALL types of exams, I am an A-student, however these nursing exams are NOTHING like I had in medic school.
Medic school was not easy by any stretch. Mostly, it was just infomation overload. We had over 1,000 hrs of clinicals to do in one year (in addition to specialty clinicals like OB, Psych, Burn Unit, and autopsies) and I worked two jobs throughout. However, this being said, when it came to taking exams, though you might have a question where there are two 'good' answers, it always fell back to scene safety, personal safety, hemorrhage control, and ABCs, exactly in this order. Really, you could narrow it down pretty safely knowing the steps.
Nursing is nothing like this. On my very first exam, I did not do so well (for me). I immediately went to the nursing tutor center and began my nursing 'critical thinking' exercises. I saw a weakness and then went hells' bells to make it stronger.
Yes, intelligence has something to do with it. However, I can say that nursing exams are nothing like exams in any other course work I have taken, and it has been a challenge to meet my goals. It was not so easy as to snap my fingers and say, 'done'. Yes, I can say I'm smart. Yes, I can say I even have common sense. But, nursing school is still a challenge for me, one that I enjoy immensely (love learning, have to know the how/why of EVERYTHING). I am never afraid to ask questions, of looking dumb (would rather know for sure than guess), nor do I care what people think. Again, I think this comes from my current profession. Can't tell you how many times I have talked with a doc to say, 'Could I have done better or differently to help this pt?', or basically, 'What the h*^& was wrong with my pt?' because I didn't have a clue.
Even with me being smart, I do not think I would be doing so well without the years behind me working as a paramedic. Smartness only goes so far...
"C's get degrees", "C your way thru", I heard them all. Before I reveal my grades from nursing school, let me say this......My badge says "RN - Staff Nurse"! No where is there a GPA to be found. I work with several nurses that have atleast half of the freakin' alphabet behind their name and can honestly say.....If I have a condition in which my nurse has time to research, write a paper, and present that info to the persons caring for me, get me the A student. If I am about to die or suffer long term effects if my condition is not treated rapidly...give me the C student that can deal with the situation immediately, not after she goes to Google! I was a B student. Right smack in the middle! Not to toot my own horn, but I can work circles Nancy Nurse, RN, BSN, PALS, CNOR, ACLS, NP,CPAN,NRP.........
So you're assumption here is that "A" students are thorough but slow and "C" students are fast and nimble? I think the "A" students here just got dissed again.
I would probably think that students that understand concepts thoroughly enough to do well on tests would TEND to be able to more quickly understand, assess, and deal with a situation. I would think that the "C" student would TEND to have the need to look it up. If you don't know it well enough to answer correctly in the comfort of a classroom with 150 seconds per question, how can you make the assumption that they would do better in the crucible of a clinical emergency? Notice...I said TEND TO, not an absolute statement. It is NOT TRUE for everybody.
Please, please, please, stop insulting your "A" students just so that you can make yourself, or the "C" students feel better. There is no reason for anyone to put down or pull anyone down just to make ourselves feel better.
I think that reacting to an emergency situation comes with experience, and I don't mean the recognizing of the deteriorating condition...I believe, right or wrong (I'm sure someone here will tell me if I'm wrong ) that a grad student or basic EMT should be able to recognize a life-threatening condition (i.e. altered mental status varying from baseline and whacky-acky vital signs, etc.) The process of 'reacting' to it, though, would include (to me) fast thinking, calm demeanor, the ability to be confident in conveying to the doc what you believe to be wrong, and to instill confidence in your pt that you know what you're doing.
I don't know how in the world anyone can think (or how we got to the point in this discussion) that reacting to an emergency is related to grades.
In all my clinicals as a medic would you believe I never got to see a grand mal seizure? Ever? Plenty of postictal pts...but never a seizure. On my very first day I had one. I'll be honest and say it scared me to death! I did what I was supposed to do and everything turned out fine. On my third day as a medic, I delivered a 25-week premie in the back of my ambulance. I was shaking, sweating, and telling the BRAND NEW firefighter EMT what to do on the way to the hospital. I managed mom (who was hypotensive and in and out of consciousness) and baby (HR of 72, agonal respers - survived, but brain damaged), but was terrified, and after I left the hospital I spent a good bit of time at the station kneeling to the porcelain god, belittling myself that I should have done better, more...shoulda, coulda, woulda, etc.
But the point is, reacting to an emergency is a learned skill (I believe) and one that comes with time, experience, and can depend on the personality of the caregiver. Now, I can go to a code, drowning, MI, CVA call, etc. and not even get butterflies in my stomach. But, I've got 4,000+ hours of experience behind me now. Yes, I was an A student in medic school, too. But, I could not tell you if I had done better or worse than any other grad student, no matter what their grade was, in that situation. And to think that managing that situation had anything to do with 'doing research' and 'writing a paper' and going to Google? Are you kidding me? Oh my goodness
Woah, that was harsh and completely uncalled for. Some people are just better test takers than others. A grade is just a letter, it means nothing in the real world. I think clinical performance is a much better predictor of a good nurse.
I completely agree. Just because someone gets an A in class does not mean they have a good bedside manner with patients and families. Not just Nurses but Doctors too. My mother in law had a Physician who was the best surgeon around but his bedside manner was that of an icecube. When I needed to see a Physician for bladder issues, I picked him only because I knew he was the best but if I had not known that and was referred to him, I would have jumped right back up out of my chair and left that office no questions asked because of how he talked to his patients. School and grades are not everything, how you treat your patients and your peers and completing your tasks matters more in the workplace than anything.
That said: Smarts does matter as well. You have to know your stuff to pass your classes and graduate and pass the NCLEX but I really don't care if you were an A, B or C student as long as you know what you need to know in order to take care of me and you aren't a complete orifice in the process. Some of the best nurses that I work with didn't pass the NCLEX the first time for various reasons. They did pass and went on to excel in both their technical ability as well as compassion towards their patients. Don't diss someone because they got a C and you got an A, that doesn't make you an better than them. You simply may have been able to study more than that person did. I got mostly C or B on my tests in my Biology class last semster but I got 100 out of 100 correct on the final. I knew my stuff, I simply had to re-learn how to study as this was my first semester back after 5 years out of school. I studied my butt off to get that 100 and a B in the class. I too am annoyed by students who complain about getting a 90 or the grade the teacher "gave them" but it doesn't matter how anyone else does, it matters to me how I did and that I know that I know the material and I retain it.
My mother in law had a Physician who was the best surgeon around but his bedside manner was that of an icucube. When I needed to see a Physician for bladder issues, I picked him only because I knew he was the best
You just made our point...
Better is superior to nicer.
In a pinch you have proven that you prefer the 'best' surgeon over the 'nicest' surgeon.
Bravo!!!!My sentiments exactly. You couldn't put it better. It almost becomes a game to see how many letters of the alphabet a nurse can put behind her name. But you know, with all that crazy mumbo jumbo stuff, they are still a nurse like everyone else, no better, no worse.
"C's get degrees", "C your way thru", I heard them all. Before I reveal my grades from nursing school, let me say this......My badge says "RN - Staff Nurse"! No where is there a GPA to be found. I work with several nurses that have atleast half of the freakin' alphabet behind their name and can honestly say.....If I have a condition in which my nurse has time to research, write a paper, and present that info to the persons caring for me, get me the A student. If I am about to die or suffer long term effects if my condition is not treated rapidly...give me the C student that can deal with the situation immediately, not after she goes to Google! I was a B student. Right smack in the middle! Not to toot my own horn, but I can work circles Nancy Nurse, RN, BSN, PALS, CNOR, ACLS, NP,CPAN,NRP.........
You know I thought this was about nursing school and passing with a C
I like to read this posts and contribute to them, I read your posting here and I find that i have something to say
The RN that has all these certifications, and masters degree ie the NP would be an asset to our profession.
Why diss someone if they want to achieve something.
But you do bring up another point, our education does not stop after we graduate from college, those certifications indicate that a person can work in a code either with an adult or a pediatric, work as a nurse practitioner etc, I am all for continuing education
Although it is funny, we have a guy at work who writes his name, RN, BSN, CCRN. I am curious, you claim that you can work circles around Nancy Nurse, RN, BSN , Pals, CNOR, ACLS, CPAN, NRP.. Do you have all that experience in the OR, both peds and adults codes, certified with a masters degree as a nurse practitioner ?>
In a pinch you have proven that you prefer the 'best' surgeon over the 'nicest' surgeon.
Not that I prefer the best, I would ultimately have liked someone who was the best and the nicest, but he was the best and I knew him so he treated me a little differently than other patients whom he dealt with. But another point to make is that you can coach people like this to be nicer (if they are willing), you can not always always coach people to be smarter or learn in a different way. Point in fact: Nurse where I work is a great test taker, can always tell you the answer when presented with a problem on paper. Same nurse in patient care setting freaks when he comes to the same problem just presented the previous day on paper and to which he knew exactly what to do. Now he suddenly can not function. Scares the begeezuz outta me. Some people can be smart test takers and tell you step by step what to do in any situation but when the situation comes to fruition they have no clue what to do. Would you want that Nurse caring for you simply because you knew he was the A student? I certainly hope not.
) that a grad student or basic EMT should be able to recognize a life-threatening condition (i.e. altered mental status varying from baseline and whacky-acky vital signs, etc.) The process of 'reacting' to it, though, would include (to me) fast thinking, calm demeanor, the ability to be confident in conveying to the doc what you believe to be wrong, and to instill confidence in your pt that you know what you're doing.
rph3664
1,714 Posts
We had a pharmacy professor who did things like this, and the dean had to get involved because he really wasn't testing people; he was simply frustrating them.
One story that people talk about still was the year where 66 students out of 100 or so got D's in his class.
This whole thread reminds me of teacher competency tests. Huh? How can you determine from a test how well someone can teach? You can't! When I was a kid, there was a teacher who was squeezed out because she really couldn't teach, and you KNOW she knew her alphabet and basic math; IIRC she taught second grade.