As an offshoot to the News article about nursing education, an opinion was brought to the board that LPNs are not adequately prepared to care for patients, and that their education is not strenuous like an RN program is. Having been in the field for awhile, what is your opinion on the differences between LPNs and RNs, other than the legally different aspects (LPNs cannot do initial assessments or IVs in my state for instance)
I'm not looking to start trouble, but rather discuss the topic in an area other than an unrelated thread.
Differences in LPNs vs RNs (educationally, functionally, intellectually)
Best way to combat any possible negatives of the above
Advice for an LPN student (who is too far through her program to just throw it out and start over in an RN program - already applied for an LPN to RN program starting Jan 2010)
Should I really expect to run into attitudes in the workplace about my not being worthwhile as an employee and a care provider because I chose the path that I have? How do you handle it if you do?
There is a local small rural hospital that pays incredibly well for LPNs right out of school and who has been trying very hard to recruit us during clinicals... am I going to be inequipped to care for patients there because of my education? I would never want to get into a situation where patient care was compromised because my education was lacking somehow...
I find the whole LPN – RN thing kind of funny, in a stupid way. It’s not about patient care, but about title, credentials after person’s name and Public relations.
From my perspective, I have been a respiratory therapist for 15 years. I graduated from LPN /LVN school last year and I will finish up the last of the course requirements for the LVN to RN transition program this semester and the next summer semester. The hospital I work at now as a respiratory therapist, just got rid of all their LVN’s, some who have many years of experience and hired new RN grads, pay the new RN’s the same the LVN’s that they got rid of, and patient care has suffered. Just so the hospital can boast that all patient care is done by a RN.
In my LVN classes all the instructors, all RN’s, the story was the same. LVN’s were taught patient care and RN’s are taught how to think about patient care.
My wife has been in the medical profession all her life, all in the same hospital, 28 years, CNA to LVN, got tired of doing the work of a RN and not getting paid the same. Transitioned to RN, then to a bachelor program, and now she just graduated with a master degree as a family nurse practitioner. She started at the bottom and has worked in all the different areas of patient care and management also.
As far as patient care goes as a nurse, you cannot fix stupid, no common since, being lazy, just mean or stealing patients pain meds. Both I and my wife have worked with excellent nurses and truly dangerous ones who have injured or killed their patients in their care. Being a good nurse has nothing to do with the letters that follow someone’s name on their name badge or just because they have passed the state RN nursing boards.
It all about image, $$, politics, and marketing- Not patient care
Specializes in acute rehab, med surg, LTC, peds, home c.
Re: "LPNs should be done away with altogether"
"how many hours of clinical for RN or LPN student . do any student nurses do 50/50 theory/practical the uk student nurse requirements.
i worked a 37.5 hurs week on wards for 21 week each year over 3 years.
my hands on experiences has taught me as much as the knowledge behind it r me seeing something occur carcinogenic shock made the the ER made a lecture come to life."
Ayla,
Are you sure you don't mean cardiogenic shock? Do you understand the pathophysiology you are talking about? You have made my point. Are you an RN in the UK? Hands on will come soon enough when you get out into the work place. In order to be taken seriously, nurses need to be have a well rounded education. You can learn to do procedures but you will be slightly better than a well trained monkey unless you know the theory behind it. Nurses need to have well developed written and verbal communication skills just as much as they need to know how to do procedures. If we ever want to be respected professionals we have to get a better education.
No school and no amount of training can adequately prepare a student to hit the ground running. After all, that's why employers prefer a certain amount of clinical experience. As far as doing away with LPNs is concerned: I'm all for it.
Now, before my fellow LPNs start looking for a suitable tree, please let me explain. First of all, this isn't something that would happen over night. Neither is it the same as labeling LPNs as useless. On the contrary, in my 19 years as an LPN I've always been expected to be a professional and to live up to professional standards, however, without professional pay and benefits. The LPN career is a cuel de sac. In my view of the future, I believe a phasing out of LPNs alltogether would have many positive impacts on the nursing profession. First, there would be less question whether nurses are truly professionals. The wages overall would increase and therefore uplift the profession. Employers would have less concern whether certain nurses can do certain procedures. Students would start out on the main track instead of having to switch tracks later on. I'm thinking streamlining. I would expect tuition to become more affordable or financial aid to be more accessible. My point is, I see this as a question of economics (socioeconomics perhaps) for the future, not as a question of who is or isn't a real nurse today.
Specializes in acute rehab, med surg, LTC, peds, home c.
Systoly, I agree with you that nothing can prepare you for working like just jumping into it however, I do think a good dose of the theory behind what you are doing is necessary to drive the point home.
Agreed. Didn't mean to negate that. It also exposes us to working with groups of individuals and whether we like it or not, the group we're part of and the roles we assume directly affect us and our clients.
Systoly, I agree with you that nothing can prepare you for working like just jumping into it however, I do think a good dose of the theory behind what you are doing is necessary to drive the point home.
So are you saying as an LPN we have no theory behind what we do? And in your previous post, I sure do hope you were not trying to compare LPNs to monkeys... I was taught theory in school, yes we had more clinical hours than acual lecture, but we DID have it. We learned to do care plans and all. Im sorry but I find what you said very offensive, especially if your previous post meant what I took it to mean.
Like other posters have said, the letters by your name don't make you a good or bad nurse. I am very proud to sign the letters LPN after my name. And one day if I decide to get my RN I will be very proud to sign those letters also!
i totally agree with what you are saying..as i said in my previous post on this topic, i went on the floor as an brand new RN. Some nurses (LPN's) were very snotty to me and seemed kind of threatened. They gave me a hard time at first. (this was a LTC attached to acute care hospital/very high level for LTC back then)
anyway,
Then when they realized i was willing to learn from them and appreciated their knowledge, they realized we could be a team..the goal is good patient care. I still to this day appreciate the excellant assessment skills and ability to be thorough with care that THEY taught me. Now as a supervisor role i expect all nurses to think critically, be proactive with care, etc etc..
One of my favorite quotes i have heard from a nurse in the past is, "you are paid to think"...in my opinion that means RN or LPN...
So unless it is out of your scope of practice in your state (ex IV's etc)...we are ALL nurses. Please, i just wish certain people would get over this debate of who is the "better" nurse.
The point was on academic skills which translate into communication skills. And far be it from me to intentionally insult anyone, but seriously... So what if someone says LPNs are well trained monkeys. I've been called a lot worse, but...I know who I am. Hm, anybody seen my banana?
I am a LPN working on a busy short stay surgical unit. I also am in my 2nd year of school to get my RN with my degree. I work along side RN's, carry my own pt load, give all medications, start IV's, transcribe orders and am responsible for all my pt's assessments. We have a charge nurse as a resource for both the RN's and LPN's. We (LPN's) do not monitor central lines or pic lines or give IV push medications (we have to hang most of our pushes in secondary lines). The university I am going to did not give me any credit for my LPN.
It's really sad to me that this is even a topic here. We are all nurses. We all have a responsibilty to: our own clinical practice; accountibilty to our scopes of practice; act as pt advocates and foster a healing and caring environment in our workplace.
I believe in Jean Watson's Model on caring but would like to take it a step further to say...to care for pt's we first have to care for ourselves, then we have to care for each other (nurse to nurse) and then to our pt's.
Come on nurses (RN's and LPN's) we need to lose the attitude; we can do better than this.
Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
The LPN is a better trained CNA that gets stuck doing RN level work at times. They need to increase CNA training and pay them better, cut out LPN like several countries have, and have CNA's and RN's Just my opinion
And ice out the incumbant LPNs? Are you kidding?? How insulting!:angryfire:o
Specializes in L&D, NICU, PICU, School, Home care.
Working in various nursing fields for 36 years has given me a look at the LPN/RN debate many times. It rivals the RN (diploma) vs ASN vs BSN that has also occurred during this time. In a nut shell there are some VERY GOOD LPN's and some VERY BAD LPN's just as there were great RN's and bad BSN's and vise versa. What a good LPN lacks in formal education she can more than makes up for in her caring patient care and unofficial assessment skills. For example an LPN who recognized a crashing pt alerted the code team and did all that was needed while awaiting the arrival of the team. Where was her RN "in charge"... snoozing in the bathroom and was unaware of the calamity on her unit for 30 min. (she's now unemployed). Or how about the LPN who taught the BSN in charge how to put in a foley. She had learned about it in school but never had the chance to actually put one in.
In the last 36 years there has been several initiatives to get rid of LPN's or diploma RN's so that health care in hospital was all BSN and ASN or higher. Each time it does not get off the ground. Why? Because hospitals have found the the LPN is a valuable asset to the health care TEAM. In today's DRG's etc for payment for care there has to be a team otherwise the hospitals would all be broke. Many hospitals are walking the very fine line between financial solventcy and closing beds. I worry about what will be available for my children when they reach retirement.
Re: "LPNs should be done away with altogether"
KenH
91 Posts
I find the whole LPN – RN thing kind of funny, in a stupid way. It’s not about patient care, but about title, credentials after person’s name and Public relations.
From my perspective, I have been a respiratory therapist for 15 years. I graduated from LPN /LVN school last year and I will finish up the last of the course requirements for the LVN to RN transition program this semester and the next summer semester. The hospital I work at now as a respiratory therapist, just got rid of all their LVN’s, some who have many years of experience and hired new RN grads, pay the new RN’s the same the LVN’s that they got rid of, and patient care has suffered. Just so the hospital can boast that all patient care is done by a RN.
In my LVN classes all the instructors, all RN’s, the story was the same. LVN’s were taught patient care and RN’s are taught how to think about patient care.
My wife has been in the medical profession all her life, all in the same hospital, 28 years, CNA to LVN, got tired of doing the work of a RN and not getting paid the same. Transitioned to RN, then to a bachelor program, and now she just graduated with a master degree as a family nurse practitioner. She started at the bottom and has worked in all the different areas of patient care and management also.
As far as patient care goes as a nurse, you cannot fix stupid, no common since, being lazy, just mean or stealing patients pain meds. Both I and my wife have worked with excellent nurses and truly dangerous ones who have injured or killed their patients in their care. Being a good nurse has nothing to do with the letters that follow someone’s name on their name badge or just because they have passed the state RN nursing boards.
It all about image, $$, politics, and marketing- Not patient care