"Incidental overtime"

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Specializes in MICU, SICU.

Hello everyone!

I work in a large teaching hospital in the ICU. To make a long story short, they (management) have been freaking out lately regarding the ever-important budget. I realize that a hospital is a business, but the way they have been approaching the staff regarding budget issues is insane.

The other night at work, I was finished with all my patient care for the time being, and checking my hospital email. What I found was 2 emails regarding incidental overtime. The first, a general one which was in a yelling, condescending tone that most nurses felt was quite rude. It went over the fact that "our unit is the worst financially due to sitter cases (not sure how that one is the STAFF's fault!), INCIDENTAL OVERTIME (of course, in caps and bold), and finally, approved mandatory meetings". Mandatory meetings are our fault as well, huh? Interesting! As a new-ish employee to this institution, I am not wanting to cause any major waves, but excuse me? I wish I could remember all of that email, but I can't right now. Basically the tone was quite b*tchy and I don't think that the staff is going to be all that responsive to it, or at least not in the way management wants us to. Also, there was a segment "this will be the last mass email regarding this issue, people who do not respond to management's wishes will be reprimanded". Ok, that was the FIRST and ONLY email I'd ever received regarding this issue! GRR.

The second email regarding the Incidental OT was a personal one to me. It read (just like this): "You have 3 instances of clocking in early and 2of punching out late. Please see management if this is incorrect or fix this situation at once. Further attempts to receive incidental OT will be reprimanded with write-ups." First of all, I'm a new-ish employee who was told we could clock in after 6:50pm, it is ACTUALLY 6:54pm, so that accounts for the early ones. Secondly, do you really THINK I want to stay on the unit any longer than is necessary? If I'm there late, it's for a freaking reason, charting or had a busy night. So do they think I should do all their stinking paperwork/charting, or actually TAKE CARE OF THE PT? Because, sometimes, even with no breaks, 12.5hrs isn't enough to get it all done.

Thanks for listening to my rant, wondering if anyone else has management that likes using threats as motivation for change

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Sounds like a typical email from a bean counter, someone who doesn't have a clue as what is going on on the floor. All they see is OT and money being wasted on nurse that can't do a simple job of passing pills, doing treatments, being an advocate, providing comfort, listening to what the pt has to say, answering the phone, write new orders, d/cing old orders, doing admissions, updateing treatments, answering the 40,000 questions a family member has about their loved ones meds and treatments, helping co-workers with transfers, showers, bed baths, toileting.............I think i may have missed a couple of dozen other things. I mean come on, you have 12 hours!

If you can't tell, I have recieved a similar email..........my response was "I was looking for a job when I came here........" I haven't recieved another e-mail since and I'm still there doing what I love to do.

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Specializes in ICU, ED, Transport, Home Care, Mgmnt.

Incidental overtime can kill a budget and not all of it is necessary. There are people out there:rolleyes: who regularly wait for a few extra minutes to clock out just for the OT. An extra thirty minutes a day over two weeks equals five hours of OT. I know of some nurses who manage to accumulate an hour a day, not because they couldn't finish the job in the alloted time but because they wouldn't stop talking so they could finish up on time. Others are real good at appearing to be busy without accomplishing anything. It causes problems for those who actually stay over because of so much to do and not enough time to do it. Look around you and I bet you can identify the abusers fairly quickly. You need to know how things affect the budget on your unit so you can understand how things work and how you and others can help keep costs under control. Do you want part of your next raise going to a coworker who abuses the incidental overtime? Think about it. Now the way the information is put out to you is an individual issue, there are professional and straight forward ways of doing it without upsetting the staff. Sounds like your manager needs an attitude adjustment.:uhoh3:

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I actually wish we clocked in and out of work! We are paid exactly on the hours on the rota and noone cares if someone is asked to work an hour late because someone is sick and waiting for cover or something. I also wish we clocked in and out for breaks, that way they'd see we can't take them most of the time!!!!

Sounds like complete rubbish your management are pulling you on. I never ever finish on time after my 12 1/4 hour shift, usually 15 minutes late, sometimes more. If you have to document a recent development or the person you are handing over to is not on the floor on time, how is that your fault?

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Specializes in Psych, Med/Surg, Home Health, Oncology.
I actually wish we clocked in and out of work! We are paid exactly on the hours on the rota and noone cares if someone is asked to work an hour late because someone is sick and waiting for cover or something. I also wish we clocked in and out for breaks, that way they'd see we can't take them most of the time!!!!

Unless you are management & a salaried employee, I believe it is illegal to not be paid overtime.

If we miss our lunch--which is often, we swipe "no lunch". That way we get paid.

I worked for a Hospital a few years back that didn't pay you for those overtime minutes--even hours. It was "YOUR FAULT".

This went on for a few years. One day I received a check in the mail for a VERY NICE AMOUNT!! Guess what?? Someone reported them to the Labor Relations Board. They were forced to pay everyone who worked there thru that period a given sum of money. Also they were fined by the state & warned that it must not happen again. So even tho they didn't like t he O.T. they had to pay us!!

Mary Ann

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Specializes in Education, Acute, Med/Surg, Tele, etc.

I worked in a facility that actually chastised a person for clocking in ONE minute early from lunch! I mean sheesh! So that fear/intimidation level was high!

Basically they left me alone because the one time I clocked in 4 minutes early for a shift (and I wound up not even getting my coat off...acute situation) I reminded management that they are paying for me to explain why I clocked in early...and keeping me from doing my nursing duties...and therefore may have me working 4 minutes over my shift to complete my tasks! Also, instead of clocking in on occassion ;), I would 'forget' and have to fill out time card paperwork (on their dime), which took them longer to figure out (again, their dime!).

I made my point and wasn't asked again, and they also looked at my record which was spotless...time card and all! So they got the message that I wasn't trying for OT, heck I was part time anyway...and never ever got OT!

Since nursing is a PROFESSION, I wonder if Lawyers or Doctors get written up for a few minutes OT????

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I worked for a company that wrote you up if you didn't clock out for meals. If you didn't have time for a meal it didn't matter. You clocked out anyway, worked and hoped you remembered to clock back in and on time.

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Specializes in Trauma, Teaching.
worked for a company that wrote you up if you didn't clock out for meals. If you didn't have time for a meal it didn't matter. You clocked out anyway, worked and hoped you remembered to clock back in and on time.

There's another that needs to be reported to the labor board.:uhoh3:

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I believe ClaireMacl is working in the UK and their OT rules are different from ours.

Maybe I'm a cynic, but when the admin. puts a nurse in a squeeze like the one described by the OP, I think they are trying to get the nurse to clock out and then come back and tie up the lose ends on her own, non-paid time. They obviously didn't seek info about why the nurses were working more than 12 hrs/shift. Because, they don't care! They just want you to clock out on time, and figure you're a concerned professional who will not leave work undone.

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Specializes in Nurse Scientist-Research.

'Course I don't know your hospital; but I've worked at several and these things come up every once and a while, then they pass. When TPTB would start harrasing us (the peons) too much, we would start filing for "no lunch". Not lying, I almost always had to skip lunch at least once a week and I had/have above average time management skills. Yea, that usually got them to back off about 2-3 minutes overtime a night. By the way, this was always when I worked M/S telemetry, haven't had as much of an issue since I transferred to NICU but maybe I'm just in a good place. Also not as much of an issue when you work 12 hour shifts (unless they pay you overtime for time over 8hrs/day instead of 40hrs/week) since you only go into overtime if you work an extra.

There was one time back in the early '90s they got super picky about this incidental overtime. We actually got printout reports of every occurence where we had overtime. I was shocked by how much OT I had accumulated one week until I realized that was the week Daylight savings time ended (or begun?) where you have to work that extra hour (if you work nights). Did they want us to leave an hour before dayshift got there (sarcastic tone here folks). Oh, and we shut them up for good when we started filing regularly for "no lunch" which all of us had frequently because that floor was so busy. Seriously, I never worked so hard in my life as I did at that job and it was my first in nursing so I had no clue how overworked we were.

As for those of you working through your lunches and not being paid, contact the Labor Board already! Even those of us in non-unionized states don't have to put up with that. Besides isn't there a problem for the employer if God forbid you are injured while you are clocked out? (I don't know, just wondering).

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Yup, I am in the UK, but it still sucks that a first world country does such a thing! I didn't get a break till 3am last night (started at 7.45pm) and because I had such critical pts and we were down in staff, there was no way... I transferred my post arrest pt (my first I brought back from PEA!!!!) to another hospital and when I came back, I took 5 minutes, yes, 5 minutes to myself (aka break) because they were hit so hard. I didn't mind, I'd hate to leave my collegues in such a mess, but still, being paid for it might have been nice, I think I clocked about 20 minutes break instead of 90 minutes last night!!!

I believe ClaireMacl is working in the UK and their OT rules are different from ours.
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Since nursing is a PROFESSION, I wonder if Lawyers or Doctors get written up for a few minutes OT????

Lawyers and Doctors are salaried professionals. They earn their same salaries whether they work 30 hours per week or 80 hours per week. I do not think that is what ANY of us wants for nursing - profession or no.

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