"I Narcanned Your Honor Student"

[EAGirl]

After browsing Reddit today, I came across something that troubled me deeply. This is not the first time I have seen something of this nature displayed. Once I seen an EMT with a VERY similar quote on a t-shirt. Being in nursing school has allowed me to open up and become compassionate about many things.

Why would someone take humour in this situation?

[tyvin, BSN, RN]

Many who support it are missing (or choosing to ignore) the point that it's a fiscal matter — EMS agencies cannot afford the steep prices of Narcan in the amounts that they're administering it. The proposed solution is dumb, but definitely getting attention! I suggest just changing protocols to just bagging overdose patients on the way to the ED — it will produce the same effect as titrating Narcan to respirations.

Excuse but to add to the comments about fiscal responsibility...

The money...do we include the elderly who falls 3 times a week at home and is helped by EMS, do we include the alcoholics that continually go to the ER and get hydrated weekly and go back out and do it again: there are so many examples.

I say that the addicts are chosen because people don't understand the disease/addiction and therefore think addicts are disposable. If we can send billions of dollars of aid money to countries and support sanctuary cities and have hundreds of thousands of people cheat the SSDI system or welfare fraud that is blatantly rampid here in America but than point a finger at addicts, what does that say about us.

Three strikes and you're out didn't work in the prison system and two srikes and you're out; allowing a person to die won't either. There are so many posts on this forum by nurses complaining they waste their talents on junkies that it's discouraging.

Congressman Picard doesn't believe the current theory of addiction as being a disease or why not apply this rule to all scenarios where we waste resources in healthcare? Why pick on the addict?

Congressman Picard of Ohio wants to send a message to the world that you don't come to Middleton, Ohio to overdose. That's right Congressman Picard; the addicted people overdosing are doing it on purpose (some maybe but I believe the majority aren't).

As a congrssman he has the power to introduce bills to have the drug companies selling narcan to reduce the price...instead let the people die from a disease/addiction? Chief Paul Loli of the Fire Department of Middleton says that 85% of the overdoeses in Middleton, Ohio are first time ODs, and that 15% are the repeat ODs.

Tennessee has passed a bill that will be the first state to allow any and all adults to free education at the community colleg level. Wow; many states will follow suite. How much is that costing the taxpayer who (in all llikely hood) already paid for their education and in all probability may have student loans. I say this to compare to the 2 strikes and we won't come because if this anti-treatment of addcits bill is allowed; other states will follow suite.

If it's all about the money than use your power in Congress to change the pricing of narcan. Oh, would the drug lobbyist object? How far in their pocket is this congressman? The smart thing to do would be to pass a bill to lower the cost of narcan sold to the EMS community.

Where does all the heroin and cocaine come from? Mexico, South America, Afghanistan...how does this all come into the United States? Primarily through Mexico via the Rio Grande River, by coast via boat, submarines, air planes, bribed officials at the border of the Mexico-America crossing, cossing over the multiple areas of the states that border Mexico, persons strapping it to themselves and basic smuggling in general. Some have a theory that the CIA and or the military of the U.S. are smuggleing heroin from Afghanistan. The Taliban banned opium years ago yet our troops protect the farmers who grow it. They say the military is trying to convert the Afghan farmers to grow other crops...ok

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwik_aPJwuvUAhVSxmMKHRY1CyAQFggrMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtoncitypaper.com%2Fcolumns%2Fstraight-dope%2Farticle%2F20836192%2Fwhy-dont-we-bomb-afghanistans-poppy-fields&usg=AFQjCNF_qXhz_h8HT60xdSR3wo07ZRdjEg

These addicts brains are changed by the drug; the drug tells them that at all costs, to get the drug. Now we're going to legalize premeditated murder against sick persons?

They said it when Obama introduced ACA (Obamacare). Death panels...here we go.

I've already got many more ideas for t-shirts slogans with this added to the mix.

[JustKeepDriving]

One of the biggest problems with addiction is that people treat it as a 'disease of morality' and not just a disease. It's easy to look at people and think "you did this to yourself!" when they're on their 3+ overdose, or third admission to the Psych ED in 2 weeks or relapse and get kicked out of their sober living ect. Yet we don't hold the same disdain for the person with Type II diabetes that comes in with red rock-candy blood due to an A1C of 12 or CbG so high that the glucometer is basically like "Too high to read, I give up - call doctor" over and over. Or the hypertensive patient that washes their Lasix down with a McDonald's #1 supersized despite how many times we've provided education and nutrition consults.

Humans have been getting high ever since some caveman discovered some prehistoric berry that made him feel funny. It's not some recent asocial phenomena that just happened randomly. It's a biological thing - brain enjoys mind altering substances just like the brain enjoys sex or any number of different things - and the brain can get addicted to a variety of activities that make it feel good (not just substances).

Yet we stand there so aghast like - "How can they do this to themselves! They made poor life choices!". Honestly though, we can say that about a lot of illnesses we treat. "How could they eat themselves into type two diabetes! If they just would have adhered to dietary guidelines and exercise!". "How could they give themselves skin cancer! We know better than to go outside without sun screen!".

I've come to this point where I just radically accept that people aren't always going to do what's best for themselves (and sometimes others). People will drive when they're way too tired to be on the road. People will eat McDonalds, people will go tanning, they'll try drugs, sometime's they'll drink too much or just generally make questionable decisions. Most of us come out okay and won't have issues - some of us, won't (they'll try a drug and not be able to stop, they'll fall into a pattern of problematic drinking, they'll continue to make poor dietary choices, they'll fall asleep driving, or get so wrapped up in video games the stop doing their ADL's and develop a crust ect).

The problem is too - that we treat substance use like a criminal issue instead of a public health issue - which causes it to link up with many other criminal enterprises (quite like what happened during prohibition - prostitution, other illegal acts ect) and see it overwhelmingly as a failure on behalf of the addict. So yeah, we can say "it's not economical to treat addicts" but I could say the same thing about diabetes, hypertension or many, many other chronic diseases.

[BSNbeauty, BSN, RN]

I'm a nurse and I don't find it funny at All. That's just me. Carry on !

Btw- I'm pretty compassionate too. Don't let these old crusty bats make you think being compassionate is not okay.

[~Mi Vida Loca~RN, ASN, RN]

I AM SO OFFENDED I AM USING ALL CAPS TO TELL YOU HOW OFFENDED I AM.... just kidding..

But seriously so many post on this website are about people getting their feelers hurt.. quit giving people the keys to your castle...quit letting them in. If you do let them in..guide them to your "Kill Box"

HOLD UP! You have a castle???? On nursing pay??!?!?! I am offended about that! Is your key like a normal key or one of those old heavy large antique keys, I have always wondered.

[~Mi Vida Loca~RN, ASN, RN]

I'm a nurse and I don't find it funny at All. That's just me. Carry on !

Btw- I'm pretty compassionate too. Don't let these old crusty bats make you think being compassionate is not okay.

I always find it ironic when people speak about being compassionate and what's not funny, but right away they are condescending and insulting calling people "old crusty bats" Are bats even crusty? Is this compassionate of older people? Are bats not compassionate?? Are only "old" people not compassionate??

Deep thoughts by MiVidaLoca

[~Mi Vida Loca~RN, ASN, RN]

While I have a moral and ethical conflict with the proposal you have to understand, this is a town of 50,000 smack dab in the epicenter of the overdose crisis in Ohio. Their OD numbers have increased 300% and continue to rise. They are being put into an economical crisis because of the costs incurred by treating the same people over and over again. If it continues, and it will, they are going to have to take money from other programs/services and possibly raise taxes. They simply cannot afford it anymore. Yes the proposal is shocking but nothing else is working. The repeat offenders don't want help. I narcanned the same girl 3 times a week for 4 months in a row until finally she OD'd by herself with nobody to call 911. We tried to get her into rehab. She told us to go eff ourselves. What are these small towns supposed to do?

I do understand, why do you think I don't understand?? I am very well educated in the field of addiction. Letting people just die is not a solution and creates a huge grey area that is going to open up to a world of consequences and backlash that will do more destruction financially than what they propose. So many ethical issues here as well. Letting everyone die will definitely fix the issue though. So there's that.

You can't just assume that they don't want help? Do you think they are thinking rationally in the midst of an addiction? I am actively involved in the addiction community, all aspects of it. What are they to do?? What we learned in Nursing school., "There has got to be a better way" Figure out a solution that doesn't involve just no longer helping or answering calls leaving people to die.

Do you know how many people I have met that are AMAZING intelligent brilliant people that impact the community. Go on to find out they are 10, 15, 20, 40 years sober. So much they have done to help others, so many lives changed, yet they wouldn't be here if when the were 18 in the throws of addiction someone just decided their life was no longer worth it after they overdosed twice. Addiction is a very complicated disease. it has a spectrum with varying degrees and causes. It's not a black and white issue and not every patients battle is the same.

If this passes, the backlash and what happens next will more than financial destroy that city. I would bet a lot on it,

[~Mi Vida Loca~RN, ASN, RN]

Many who support it are missing (or choosing to ignore) the point that it's a fiscal matter — EMS agencies cannot afford the steep prices of Narcan in the amounts that they're administering it. The proposed solution is dumb, but definitely getting attention! I suggest just changing protocols to just bagging overdose patients on the way to the ED — it will produce the same effect as titrating Narcan to respirations.

Yes this would seem reasonable but for some reason it just seems to escape many. What they are wanting is going to seriously backfire.

[Wuzzie]

I do understand, why do you think I don't understand?? I am very well educated in the field of addiction. Letting people just die is not a solution and creates a huge grey area that is going to open up to a world of consequences and backlash that will do more destruction financially than what they propose. So many ethical issues here as well. Letting everyone die will definitely fix the issue though. So there's that.

You can't just assume that they don't want help? Do you think they are thinking rationally in the midst of an addiction? I am actively involved in the addiction community, all aspects of it. What are they to do?? What we learned in Nursing school., "There has got to be a better way" Figure out a solution that doesn't involve just no longer helping or answering calls leaving people to die.

Do you know how many people I have met that are AMAZING intelligent brilliant people that impact the community. Go on to find out they are 10, 15, 20, 40 years sober. So much they have done to help others, so many lives changed, yet they wouldn't be here if when the were 18 in the throws of addiction someone just decided their life was no longer worth it after they overdosed twice. Addiction is a very complicated disease. it has a spectrum with varying degrees and causes. It's not a black and white issue and not every patients battle is the same.

If this passes, the backlash and what happens next will more than financial destroy that city. I would bet a lot on it,

I didn't mean to imply that you didn't understand. I'm sorry if that is how you interpreted it. Also, I didn't say I agreed with the proposal. For all I know this politician is a despicable person and is hoping the problem will just go away when all the addicts die but he does bring to light a very real problem. Narcan is currently a cash cow for pharmaceutical companies and I doubt we'll see the price come down anytime soon. In the meantime small towns in America are struggling to foot the bill for the rapidly increasing and disproportionate numbers of ODs in their communities. And FTR the leadership in Middletown has strongly stated that they will continue to treat overdose patients. I really don't think this bill has much chance but if all the publicity helps these small towns come up with a solution then in the end something good will come of it.

[Tenebrae, BSN, RN]

I think its brilliant but then again the longer I work in health the more twisted my sense of humour gets.

I did a whole thread on dark humour once and it ended up in much this same thing

"if you think that is funny you are a hideous excuse for a nurse"

What ever.

Sometimes as (actual) nurses we need a coping mechanism because breaking down in tears at the sheer heart break we encounter really isnt an option

[FatsWaller, BSN, RN]

This bumper sticker is on my clipboard at work If you don't get it or find it insulting/inappropriate, you are in for a world of hurt if you end up working as a nurse, especially in ER/ICU/Psych. When you Narcan the exact same people every SHIFT! I literally know some of these patients better than my family members. yes people OD purposely in front of the hospital, and many of them are college students or "look" like normal people, it shows this issue isn't just a "far away issue that is in the ghetto" its seeping into "perfect suburbia" and the "upper class highschools" too. The sticker is humorous, and a play on a common bumper sticker found on minivans next to stick figure families, and highlights that the issue is getting larger. From an ER nurse to a student, if this offends you….get over it.

Wait until you work your first code and those working and standing around are laughing/talking about your weekend plans with other nurses/docs while you perform compressions. This profession is filled with horrors, disease, sadness, travesty, and a lot of crap that makes no sense (morally, scientifically, and medically). If you are going to let a sticker hurt any of your ‘feelers', you are not only going to be poor at your job, but you will probably bottle a lot up and have some psych issues of your own down the road. How are you supposed to lose a 14 year old patient to a MVC and 3 minutes later go back out to the floor and take care of your 4 other patients as they give you flack and yell at you for not answering their call light for water as they eat they're McDonalds before their unnecessary abd CT, or MeeMaw who is 99 and had a stroke, and is on the vent and lived a long great life but the family insists on ignoring her DNR wish and you have to convince them this is not ideal.) How will you separate your emotions and just move on…..this is how, medical professionals joke and talk and have dark humor and that's how you cope. The ones who get emotionally invested in every single case, who take it all personal, who cry and moan about this stupid crap, they don't make it long, at least in the ER, and I'm glad, because I wouldn't want to work with a person like that.

[calivianya, BSN, RN]

I think it's hilarious.

A dear friend of mine was a C student at my private high school, kept bouncing in and out of academic probation because she'd get occasional Ds... then she transferred out to a public school and all of a sudden had a 4.0 and was an honors student. "Honors student" at a public school means you're just going to class and doing homework instead of skipping classes to smoke weed, and certainly isn't a point to brag on IMO. At least that's how it is in my geographical area. I guess that's why I'm so annoyed with all these "honors students" bumper stickers. It literally means nothing. You could maybe interpret it as that child's IQ is slightly greater than that of an earth worm if you're being generous.

I do get amused when these god-like epitomes of perfection (according to their parents) screw up. That's good humor to me - when these special snowflakes turn out to be just as human as everyone else, much to their ignorant parents' shock.

[saskrn]

I'm a nurse and I don't find it funny at All. That's just me. Carry on !

Btw- I'm pretty compassionate too. Don't let these old crusty bats make you think being compassionate is not okay.

I'm not easily offended, but your comment was out of line, IMHO. Name calling, labeling and accusations are unacceptable and unprofessional.