"For Profit" vs. "Non Profit" employers?

Nola009 · Dec 3, 2013

They are at the end of their agreement with the state of MA and the CEO has his $6 MILLION, that's $SIX MILLION!! dollar home up for sale. Yet he talks about the facilities loosing money crying poor mouth..... he talks of closing, staff cuts and service reduction......how about a salary cut Dr. Ralph de la Torre????
Here is the problem with healthcare! Is one man really worth the kind of money that buys a $6 million dollar home? Then they want to talk about cuts in reimbursements? Makes me sick. Steward chief Ralph de la Torre builds empire, but not profits - Business - The Boston Globe

I most certainly agree with you: Dr. de la Torre needs to take a pay cut. A HUGE pay cut. Why doesn't he take some of the $$ earned from the blood, sweat, tears of his workers and reinvest into the people Steward HC ?? How some people can be so greedy is beyond me and btw is the complete polar opposite of what the spirit of health care should embody.

Nola009 · Dec 3, 2013

Well the difference is also what they do with these profits. For profit institutions have share holders so when they make a profit, who benefits? Not-for-profit institutions need to invest their profit back into the institution, not divide it up amongst share holders. My not-for-profit hospital occasionally gave all staff bonuses (small ones, like $200) at the end of the fiscal year if they had a good business year. (Of course the CEO also got his six figure bonus but that happens in both kinds of facilities.)

....and this is why I will be focusing my job search on 'non-profit' organizations :)

mhy12784 · Dec 5, 2013

There are doctors at non profit hospitals who can afford 6 million dollar houses. Should they take a huge pay cut too ? An organization isnt going to pay someone big bucks unless they deem them worth it.

I think theres os much ignorance in this thread with people saying that "for profit hospitals are bad, non profits are good"

If non profits were that much better, for profits wouldnt be able to compete with them.

Heck there was a huge issue in california last year where one of the larger nurses unions were upset that the great not for profit hospitals, werent supplying enough of the charity care that they are legally supposed to.

All the while those evil for profit hospitals, were supplying billions of dollars of tax revenue used to provide vital services, healthcare, and education.

New Report: California Non-Profit Hospitals Save Billions While Providing Little Charity Care | National Nurses Unitedm not saying for profit, or non for profit hospitals are good are bad. Every hospital is a different entity, and is managed separately. But to pretend that one or the other is better or worse because of its tax status is straight up ignorant.

I would gladly work for a for profit organization if I felt it was a solid organization.

starmickey03, MSN, RN · Feb 1, 2014

I have worked for two nonprofit hospitals and two for profit hospitals and I was a much bigger fan of the nonprofit facilities. The nonprofit hospitals were up to date, had an abundance of supplies, and had a primary focus on patient care. The for profit hospitals were the exact opposite. We never had the supplies we needed (and if we did they were limited), the charting systems were horrible, and we were always being reminded by administration about "reimbursement" (i.e. don't forget to do this or we wont be reimbursed). I can honestly say that patient care was not the #1 priority in the for profit organizations.

While at the first for profit facility, I just didn't get a good vibe so I found a job at the second for profit hospital (where I still am). Shortly after beginning at the second for profit hospital I started having the same vibes and that's when I realized that the culture of these for profit facilities were what I did not like. I NEVER had these feelings while working at the nonprofit hospitals and as soon as I can find another job in a nonprofit hospital, I will never return to a for profit facility again in my life.

(Sidenote: I was a patient tech in the first nonprofit hospital then got my RN license and began at a different nonprofit facility. I moved out of state and thats where I started at the first for profit hospital and left because of feeling uneasy)

txredheadnurse, BSN, RN · Feb 1, 2014

I would say you also need to consider the type of facility or healthcare type when deciding whether to go with a non profit vs for profit. My experience in the Medicaid waiver community based programs was that the two non profits I worked for were hands down the absolute worse about squeezing the pennies until they turned blue. Plus my benefits were very poor compared to the for profits companies and our equipment was across the board used and battered and we were absolutely forbidden to ever purchase furniture, vehicles used for transporting clients or clothing for the indigent clients as brand new items. The nurses and case workers were prodded to "tithe" 10% of our salaries to the non profits. I do know for a fact that in both of the non profit programs the upper management were very well compensated while the immediate level management and the direct care workers were paid at the lowest scale possible.

I don't hate non profits but they aren't always the morally superior employer in how they treat their staff. YMMV.

Sam J. · Feb 2, 2014

"If you just lower prices, it's like peeing in a wet suit," de la Torre said. "It feels good but nobody notices."

And for that 6 million dollars (which is more likely over 20 million), this is caliber of of CEO they have?

Hoosier_RN, MSN · Feb 3, 2014

I agree, if you have poor attitudes, it doesn't matter the type of facility. I have worked in both types

Crazynut · Sep 29, 2014

Some non profits turn a bigger profit than for profits. They don't have to divide the profit among share holders. So the CEO lines his pocket and no one else's. Major corruption going on. Fraud fudging the numbers. All non profits make a profit. All it means is they give a certain amt of money away in charity care to quality for tax exemptions. Non profits nickle and dime just like for profits. The only difference I have found is that for profits are more up front about it. They tell you day one in orientation that they are publicly traded for profit. Even bring up their latest stock market value. LOL All while saying how they are committed to providing "excellent care". Hahahaha I just shook my head and laughed. I worked for a non profit that was sued by my states attorney general for fraud! It was a class action lawsuit. All because an employee tipped of authorities. He was fired and the non profit hospital sued him for defamation. Needless to say it made for very interesting news headlines :) Name that hospital!!!! It's public record! LOL I just love the good old non profit v for profit debate. The fact is they are all ******. Just different degrees of **********!

jasonbenninger · Oct 8, 2014

Actually all hospitals/nursing homes are in the healthcare business to make money. Nonprofit hospitals often have more tax incentives which allow them to have more money to put back into the facility and employees. However there are many for profit organizations that are more generous, and satisfying to work at than a nonprofit nursing homes/hospitals. It's just a matter of finding that place that leads with integrity.

MedChica · Oct 15, 2014

Ive worked for one when it was nonprofit. I continue to work there now that its for profit.

Biggest difference? Staffing. When it waa nonprofit, we werent as shortstaffed because the old owners would hire staffing to help us out. They didnt mind when we everyone worked OT, either.

We also had end of year bonuses.

rnforforty · Nov 23, 2014

I worked in both. I've only seen layoffs in non-profit, however the worst patient care was seen in for profit. The patient was always secondary to profit. As far as employees, even with layoffs, most of whom were rehired as soon as it was feasible, the treatment in non profit was %100 better, as was the patient care.

KelRN215, BSN, RN · Nov 23, 2014

I worked in both. I've only seen layoffs in non-profit, however the worst patient care was seen in for profit. The patient was always secondary to profit. As far as employees, even with layoffs, most of whom were rehired as soon as it was feasible, the treatment in non profit was %100 better, as was the patient care.

Layoffs most definitely happen in the for-profit world when units or, in an upcoming case in my state, entire hospitals are closed:

AG's office questions closing of Quincy Medical Center | Health - WCVB Home

Steward Healthcare, the for-profit corporation, that purchased several failing hospitals in MA a few years ago, announced November 6th that they intended to close Quincy Medical Center by the end of the year. By law, they need to give the state 90 days notice when they intend to close the hospital but they didn't care. It wasn't until the Attorney General pushed back (after she finished her failed campaign for Governor) that they delayed the closing until February.

https://www.bostonherald.com/business/business_markets/2014/11/quincy_medical_center_delaying_closure_until_february

My brother had surgery at a different hospital owned by the same company last month. I strongly advised him against it but, well, he A) has a big ego and doesn't want to listen to his sister and B) has a tiered health insurance plan and cares more about saving money for beer than he does about getting the appropriate care. ANYWAY, everything I saw there was atrocious. I have no doubt that the nurse cut corners because he was overworked and was probably taking care of way too many fresh post-op patients. I wanted to call the Nurse Manager the next day to report everything I saw (IV fluid hanging on a pole at the bedside, nothing labeled, could have belonged to the patient in the next bed who was long discharged for all I knew, nurse didn't change gloves between emptying the Foley and pushing IV meds, none of the meds he pushed were labeled, nurse didn't scrub the hub of the line with alcohol before pushing meds, didn't flush with saline before, between or after meds) but for all I know, Steward has probably cut the budget for things like saline flushes and alcohol wipes to save a few pennies.