Question about striking nurses?

lindarn · Jul 30, 2007

They didn't go on strike... but were ready to when they came to an agreement. It was about the same time the St John's nurses were fighting their battles. I am considering apply at AB myself where maybe I can make some real money and might even be appreciated by my employer... At least I will know I am making those that drink the beer I would be bottling appreciate what I do!!!! I really do think it's pathetic where priorities lie

AB employees were able to negotiate the pay they are now receiving, because, as most male dominated fields, they are heavly unionized. Nurses bought the big lie many years ago, that it was "unprofesssional" to unionize. And where did this philosophy come from? The hospitals, when nurses were almost exclusively educated in hospital diploma programs. It never cease to amaze me how gullible nurses were then, and now.

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN

Spokane, Washington

pickledpepperRN · Jul 30, 2007

In recent years the CNA strikes were for one or two days only.

There is an RN "picket Captain" with a cell phone. The number was given to all managers to call if there is an unsafe situation.

Then one or more nurses will be sent in to work. It is not considered crossing the line if management states patient care will be at risk without the skills of one or more striking nurses.

Unfortunately hospitals refuse to reschedule elective surgeries, use replacement nurses, and refuse to admit they need their nurses.

I am certain that if the hospital is staffing safely there would be no strike. It takes 90% of the nurses voting for a strike to call even a one day strike.

The nurses are on the line in uniform ready to work if needed.

Night nurses usually walk for about two hours then go sleep in case they are needed.

I have never had to go on strike but have supported fellow nurses on the line.

chako · Jul 30, 2007

hi,

am i a terrible nurse if i want to get paid?

when a constraction worker gets paid more than i do, there is a question. are we getting paid enough?

Freedom42 · Jul 31, 2007

11% raise? Thats huge! I always got 3% and at my current newer job I got 5% which is unheard of. I think they are greedy. As for floating...I do not agree with floating from floors to ER or units otherwise floating is acceptable if you have had orientation to that floor.

How do you know those nurses are "greedy" if you don't know how much they're paid to begin with? If they're underpaid and/or have gone without raises for some time, 11 percent may well be a reasonable demand. We don't know the details.

As for 5 percent being "unheard of," that might be the case in nursing, but in my previous career it was the norm. Three percent was what we received during a recession.

HM2VikingRN, RN · Jul 31, 2007

Personally I am in favor of binding arbitration. This tends to make the bargaining process more objective.

There are a lot of variable that affect the possible value of a settlement. (insurance costs, what are nurse's paid in comparable labor markets etc.) Without the contextual information it is impossible to make an informed comment about the merits of any individual negotiation setting.

music · Aug 2, 2007

Some comments on a few points that have been brought up.

Regarding the post about diploma grads being gullible...........and that's why we are anti-union........

I am a diploma grad and certainly do not consider myself gullible. As a matter of fact, this may be the very reason I am not gullible enough to believe that being in a union and going on strike is in any way good for me or my patients. It is good for the union as they still continue to collect your dues. It is good for the organizers as they continue to get paid. It is not good for the nurses as they do not get paid while on strike, can not take PTO or Vacation pay while on strike and may or may not achieve anything significant from it.

I am also not gullible enough to believe that during a strike the patient would have safe care while in the care of those who do not usually work in my area.These people won't know the protocols, where things are, the doctors, etc. This would inevitably slow things down and perhaps cause serious problems. Especially in areas such as ICU/CCU, PICU, NICU, Emergency Department.

On the subject of "scabs" A scab is something that forms at the site of a wound to promote healing. I would not hesitate to cross the picket line for my patients, my professional viewpoint on where I need to be and my conscience. However, I respect the right of any other nurse to follow his or her own conscience. I would not look down on them or treat them in a disrespectful manner. You can be sure that the union would encourage these same nurses to disrespect me for my stand, treat me in a negative manner, yell obscenities as I walk in etc.

I am not gullible enough to have that effect my decision for one minute. I know where I want to be. However, I am more than happy to stand up in a professional manner for any problems I see that need to be approached and would stand with my fellow nurses in approaching them in the right way.

A lot of posts state that Unions will stand up for you and get you the pay and respect you deserve......I've got news for you. Unions don't always stand up for the nurses they represent.....at least not in public. You may have heard of the problems facing King-Harbor Medical Center in Los Angeles. For over one year or more, the LA TIMES has been full of stories about poor nursing care, nursing errors, patient deaths attributed to poor nursing care. Bad morale, poor performance, lack of competency reviews, and on and on and on. Most recently, there was a lot of press nationwide regarding this hospital and the poor nursing care. The press has had a field day with all of this. NOT ONE TIME in the past year or more has the UNION that represents these nurses at this hospital come out with any statements in support of the nurses. NOT ONE TIME have I heard anything about the union standing up to the hospital and fighting for better working conditions, better training, improved pay and staffing. This has been such a public topic, the union would have served these nurses well to do something to stand up for them. Surely, not every nurse at this hospital is a bad nurse. This is not right. So much for unions fighting for nurses and helping them in the workplace. So much for the union propaganda of having a union promotes safer patient care and better outcomes. BUT I can almost guarantee you that the union is still taking out their dues from the nurses paychecks as this hospital steadily declines and is at this moment in danger of losing their government funding and closing.

The bottom line is this. I think that each hospital is unique in the specific problems they face. It is up to the nurses to join together in a professional manner to define these problems, use all avenues to seek solutions and speak up clearly and effectively to participate in solving the problems.

IF they decide that they want to be represented by a union, they need to understand that the union will not be able to solve all problems. They will take their dues, negotiate a contract and in most cases, the rest is still up to the nurses themselves.

Unions are not the one single answer. They are an answer that some choose to take and I understand that. Others choose not to take the union answer. They choose to speak for themselves. The bottom line is this.....WE are the answer and we all have a different viewpoint on how to get to the end result. I suggest that we decide to support each other no matter which solution we choose. To point fingers, call names, disregard other's feelings in useless, counterproductive and unprofessional.

This diploma grad has been in nursing over 30 years. I am here to tell you that I strongly believe in the profession of nursing and I firmly believe in the fact that it will take ALL of us, pro-union and anti-union, coming together as ONE to solve the problems before us TOGETHER.

deeDawntee, RN · Aug 2, 2007

When I started working in a Unionized facility 6 years ago, I was a bit leery, not really knowing what to expect. But now that I have seen what a Union can provide for that one lone nurse who is battling the Administration, I can't imagine ever working in a non-Union facility again. One is never alone. You always have the whole workforce behind you. Every 3 years, our contract comes up and there is always the remote possibility of a strike. I would do it in a heartbeat to maintain the power I feel as a nurse who is part of a Union. There is a sense of security that is wonderful.

reesern63, RN · Aug 4, 2007

Imagine this scenario:

You're sitting on a plane, waiting for it to take off. The pilot's voice comes over the loudspeaker and says: "This is your captain speaking. I just wanted you to know that I've already flown 10 hours today and haven't had a break, but the airline has informed me that there is no one to relieve me, so I will have to run this flight as well. Our approximate travel time is 8 hours, so sit back and enjoy the trip."

Now think about how safe you'd feel. This is the sort of thing that happens every day in hospitals here in the US. Once you're there, you're pretty much stuck; try leaving and watch how fast the word "abandonment" comes up.

There is no reason nurses shouldn't have reasonable incomes, meal breaks, bathroom breaks, healthy work loads, affordable benefits and not be subjected to mandatory overtime. It's not always as simple as "voting with your feet." For many nurses in rural areas, there isn't another facility just around the corner. And for those who say that all they have to do is advocate for themselves, congratuations, but you are in the minority; few hospital administrations are so responsive to their nursing staff.

Striking is a measure of last resort, but sometimes it's necessary to get management to listen since reason seems to elude them.

reesern63, RN · Aug 4, 2007

Some comments on a few points that have been brought up.
Regarding the post about diploma grads being gullible...........and that's why we are anti-union........
I am a diploma grad and certainly do not consider myself gullible. As a matter of fact, this may be the very reason I am not gullible enough to believe that being in a union and going on strike is in any way good for me or my patients. It is good for the union as they still continue to collect your dues. It is good for the organizers as they continue to get paid. It is not good for the nurses as they do not get paid while on strike, can not take PTO or Vacation pay while on strike and may or may not achieve anything significant from it.
I am also not gullible enough to believe that during a strike the patient would have safe care while in the care of those who do not usually work in my area.These people won't know the protocols, where things are, the doctors, etc. This would inevitably slow things down and perhaps cause serious problems. Especially in areas such as ICU/CCU, PICU, NICU, Emergency Department.
On the subject of "scabs" A scab is something that forms at the site of a wound to promote healing. I would not hesitate to cross the picket line for my patients, my professional viewpoint on where I need to be and my conscience. However, I respect the right of any other nurse to follow his or her own conscience. I would not look down on them or treat them in a disrespectful manner. You can be sure that the union would encourage these same nurses to disrespect me for my stand, treat me in a negative manner, yell obscenities as I walk in etc.
I am not gullible enough to have that effect my decision for one minute. I know where I want to be. However, I am more than happy to stand up in a professional manner for any problems I see that need to be approached and would stand with my fellow nurses in approaching them in the right way.
A lot of posts state that Unions will stand up for you and get you the pay and respect you deserve......I've got news for you. Unions don't always stand up for the nurses they represent.....at least not in public. You may have heard of the problems facing King-Harbor Medical Center in Los Angeles. For over one year or more, the LA TIMES has been full of stories about poor nursing care, nursing errors, patient deaths attributed to poor nursing care. Bad morale, poor performance, lack of competency reviews, and on and on and on. Most recently, there was a lot of press nationwide regarding this hospital and the poor nursing care. The press has had a field day with all of this. NOT ONE TIME in the past year or more has the UNION that represents these nurses at this hospital come out with any statements in support of the nurses. NOT ONE TIME have I heard anything about the union standing up to the hospital and fighting for better working conditions, better training, improved pay and staffing. This has been such a public topic, the union would have served these nurses well to do something to stand up for them. Surely, not every nurse at this hospital is a bad nurse. This is not right. So much for unions fighting for nurses and helping them in the workplace. So much for the union propaganda of having a union promotes safer patient care and better outcomes. BUT I can almost guarantee you that the union is still taking out their dues from the nurses paychecks as this hospital steadily declines and is at this moment in danger of losing their government funding and closing.
The bottom line is this. I think that each hospital is unique in the specific problems they face. It is up to the nurses to join together in a professional manner to define these problems, use all avenues to seek solutions and speak up clearly and effectively to participate in solving the problems.
IF they decide that they want to be represented by a union, they need to understand that the union will not be able to solve all problems. They will take their dues, negotiate a contract and in most cases, the rest is still up to the nurses themselves.
Unions are not the one single answer. They are an answer that some choose to take and I understand that. Others choose not to take the union answer. They choose to speak for themselves. The bottom line is this.....WE are the answer and we all have a different viewpoint on how to get to the end result. I suggest that we decide to support each other no matter which solution we choose. To point fingers, call names, disregard other's feelings in useless, counterproductive and unprofessional.
This diploma grad has been in nursing over 30 years. I am here to tell you that I strongly believe in the profession of nursing and I firmly believe in the fact that it will take ALL of us, pro-union and anti-union, coming together as ONE to solve the problems before us TOGETHER.

Your level of education is irrelevant. I am also a diploma grad, and I happen to strongly disagree with your view of crossing a line. When you do that, you undercut what those nurses are striking for and you give your support to the management who have not been willing to negotiate in good faith with the nurses.

Prettify what a "scab" is all you wish, crossing picket lines hurts the nurses who are out there fighting for better conditions for patients and nurses.

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Aug 4, 2007

Our local hospitals nurses voted to strike because they are not getting what they want with their contract (a 11% raise and no more floating are the major reasons). I'm not a nurse so I don't understand their reasoning to strike to "protect their patients". Could someone please explain to me why striking will help protect their patients. I have always felt that there are some professions that shouldn't be able to strike (walk off the job), police, fire and nurses and doctors. My husband is a correctional officer and they had to solve their contract (which they did) without striking so I know it can and does get done.

There are significant differences between police/fire rescue and MD/nurses.

Police/fire rescue are services provided by government and funded by taxes. Though some taxes go to community facilities, one is not inheritently entitled to medical/nursing care. Though in our Country today with heavily subsidized care, that line gets blurred.

We are "entitled" to the services of police/fire rescue....we are not "entitled" to medical care, though it is provided for many of us, by government assistance.

I personally do not believe in unions nor organized strikes but I support the rights of others to do what they see as right. I have never seen a strike on the East Coast, where I work that was not well merited by the facility that the strike was instituted against, due to mismanagement and abuse of HCWers. I will not work a strike.

But we all "strike" in our own way....even if it is not called a "strike", even police. There is the infamous "blue flu" that strikes. And the police force of N'Orleans has been seriously damaged by massive resignations...they strike by quitting in mass. And health care workers have done that for ages. Get in a traumatic accident w/neuro damage in WPB area of Florida during January/February or in parts of PA. Due to the extremely high price of malpractice insurance, the liability laws, high liability and extremely poor reimbursement, few trauma neuros choose to work those areas. I have had neuro injury patients in WPB (a wealthy community) have to be transferred 200 miles or more, with hours/days delay, because there were no beds at Jackson in Miami, nor qualified MDs to treat the patient. Some areas have few OBs - again liability, and inadequate reimbursement have driven them away.

Does that sort of "strike" benefit the public more than the relatively temporary one?

How many times do we see nurses so burnt out that they quit the profession or have to take a "sick day" or two? Or actually develop serious health issues that impair their ability to nurse? This is harmful to the public also.

If a facility is chronically understaffing, because they wish to pinch pennies, or will not pay adequate wages to get quality staff, this harms the patients in our care. If we are not getting our earned breaks, we cannot work to give optimal care to our patients. This cheats our patients of the care that they deserve. When we are curt, it gives a bad impression, that we are selfish, rather than them knowing we are overworked. When we cannot get them a cola after hours, because management refuses to supply anything but 3 meals, we take the heat. If the food is bad, the MD late on rounds, the phone broken, we are the ones that take the heat.

Strikes are not good things, but they are often the last resort to protect the patient...to correct conditions so that the patient can get the care that they deserve.

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Aug 4, 2007

AB employees were able to negotiate the pay they are now receiving, because, as most male dominated fields, they are heavly unionized. Nurses bought the big lie many years ago, that it was "unprofesssional" to unionize. And where did this philosophy come from? The hospitals, when nurses were almost exclusively educated in hospital diploma programs. It never cease to amaze me how gullible nurses were then, and now.

It is sad that all you seem to see are "gullible" nurses. I pride myself in fostering and mentoring strong, reliable, skilled nurses around me, who regardless of degree in nursing manage to cooperate and stand up for change without unions.

Lainee · Aug 12, 2007

I am glad we don't have a union where I work. They treat us well. I think I would have ethical difficulties striking unless the mistreatment was glaringly obvious.