Protecting yourself

fergus51 · Oct 8, 2003

No, there is nothing wrong with not liking one certain area of nursing. I have a nice career and don't have to deal with patting down my patients.

Katnip, RN · Oct 8, 2003

No, you're not out of line for being concerned. We should all be concerned. Most positions are safe, but things do go wrong at times.

As far as this patient, there should have been security there to take care of the patting down. I don't know of any nursing school that offers courses in search and seizure.

gwenith, BSN, RN · Oct 8, 2003

You could always try the "You have two choices mate. Either you let me pat you down or I watch you dangle it into the bottle and pass urine." Do it with a bit of a light tone in your voice and it is more likely they will comply and it lets you out of what you consider dangerous.

barefootlady, ADN, RN · Oct 8, 2003

Your instructor was wrong to assign you to this duty. When the man left the area and went outside, a security alert should have went into effect and upon his return he should have been "patted down " by security. It is routine in most city ER's and even in some rural ones to ask if a person is carrying needles, razors or knives. If for any reason the nurse/doctor feels unsafe then security is alerted. Police too at times. This is not nursing, once he was designated as safe or clean, then you as the nurse should have accompanied him for his specimen. If there was any question remaining that you would not be safe then security should have accompanied you. Some instructors like to act like they can handle any situation and know all of the rules. Your did not and she placed you in unnecessary danger.

LoriAnnRN · Oct 8, 2003

I agree with the above posters; you were not wrong in feeling concerned for your safety. I work in a huge county jail with all manner of pre-trial inmates and I would not feel secure about 'patting down' any of them. We are not taught what to 'pat' for. Some of the inmates fight with the biggest, baddest, deputies you ever saw so I know they would not think twice about kicking the crap out of a nurse. Don't let the instructor discourage you; hang in there.

LoriAnnRN · Oct 8, 2003

I just wanted to add something--I drew a parallell line between jail inmates and methadone patients because, well frankly, we get a significant number of inmates who are methadone patients. I just went back and read my post and thought someone might say, 'what is she talking about, he's not in jail!' Methadone clinics frequently deal with folks who are familiar with our justice system.

live4today, RN · Oct 8, 2003

Originally posted by barefootlady
Your instructor was wrong to assign you to this duty. When the man left the area and went outside, a security alert should have went into effect and upon his return he should have been "patted down " by security. It is routine in most city ER's and even in some rural ones to ask if a person is carrying needles, razors or knives. If for any reason the nurse/doctor feels unsafe then security is alerted. Police too at times. This is not nursing, once he was designated as safe or clean, then you as the nurse should have accompanied him for his specimen. If there was any question remaining that you would not be safe then security should have accompanied you. Some instructors like to act like they can handle any situation and know all of the rules. Your did not and she placed you in unnecessary danger.

AMEN sister! :)

ktwlpn, LPN · Oct 8, 2003

Originally posted by epg_pei
I was at the methadone clinic today as part of my community mental health experience. One of my tasks is to obtain urine samples from clients. I've already had a run-in with one client. This afternoon another client left the clinic for a cigarette after being informed he was to provide a sample. The nurse supervisor told me to pat him down when he came back, to look for an artificial bladder or supply of someone elses urine. The client is 6 foot, 250 lbs. My immediate thought was: he's not going to like this, how dangerous is he, what kind of position am I putting myself in. I'm a male student by the way, and nowhere near this mans size. My nursing instructor could see I was well out of my comfort zone, and said "This is nursing."

Question: Am I out of line to be concerned for myself in these situations? Is there something wrong with wanting to be a nurse and wanting to be safe at the same time? I really need some feedback about this, because my instructors comment made me question whether I am "cut out" for nursing.

I wonder what the WRITTEN POLICY is-and I am sure they have one...I am betting that nurse's patting down clients ain't on it..

sjoe · Oct 8, 2003

"The nurse supervisor told me to pat him down when he came back"

I definitely confirm what barefoot said, above. This was nothing other than poor judgment on the part of your instructor who was trying to be a "big shot."

In my 4+ years of experience working in jails and prisons, and several more years working in inpatient psych, it was NEVER part of nursing job descriptions to "pat down" anyone for any reason. This was always a custody/security matter and was done ONLY by people specifically trained and authorized to do so.

What does the Policies and Procedures Manual of this facility have to say? What does the facility employees' union have to say? What does your dean of students have to say (in writing) about this?

You put yourself in danger from not only assault, but from being stuck with secreted needles, razor blades, weapons, etc. Not to mention the fact that, unless you gained prior (and witnessed or signed) permission from this client, YOU are guilty of assault and battery. This is NOT a legitimate part of nursing, whether one is in school or not, IMHO.

rileygrl11, BSN, RN · Oct 8, 2003

I agree with the above posts. In fact, I would discuss this with the Dean (or powers that be) of your nursing program.

epg_pei · Oct 8, 2003

I was pretty sure I was on the right ground.

I don't think I will be going to the Dean or "higher powers" though, those are the people running the clinic. The clinic is a community based effort involving our school of nursing, and I think it's a great idea. But it's very small, and lacks the resources to have security on staff. There are no written policies regarding this issue, that I am aware of. Anyways, thanks again for the opinions!