Professor shortage

tmarie75 · Jun 27, 2005

a lot of bsn to ph.d. programs are popping up now, so the time it takes to get the masters and the doctorate is considerably less.

CardioTrans, BSN, RN · Jun 27, 2005

I know of 3 universities here in Alabama that do the BSN-PhD program. I would like to have my doctorate, but I dont want to do the research route. I would much rather have it in Nursing Practice because it is more hands on or clinical based. However, with that being a fairly new concept there arent that many programs. The closest one to me is a FNP/DNP program (at UofT Memphis). I am already enrolled in an FNP program, so that one isnt very helpful to me.

If the program wasnt 4 yrs POST master's and if I could find the money, Id definitely go for it.

GrnHonu99, RN · Jun 28, 2005

In almost every major, the progression of degrees goes straight from BS/BA to the Ph.D. That means a kid graduates from college in 05 and has his final degree by 09 (if all goes well.)
Maybe things have changed, but last time I checked, nurses had to get their MSN before they could enroll in the PhD program, THEN completing the PhD took another 4 years minimum.
Is this not foolish (and costly in time and money)? It seems to me that a Masters graduate should have done sufficient classroom study to "master" a subject of interest and should then be able to begin the research portion of a PhD program, completing and defending a dissertation in two years.
Our state does not have a PhD in nursing program, so I haven't kept up on how it's being done nationally. How is it done where you live? Would you be more inclined to sign up for the PhD program if you could complete it in two years?
Another difference between nursing and other majors: I got my PhD in one of the hard sciences. My major professor supported my tuition and gave me a stipend. The degree didn't cost me any money. If more faculty had more research funding, there should be support for predoctoral students. If you could have tuition and a stipend, would this influence your decision to do a doctoral program?
Just curious about barriers (if any) that keep the number of potential faculty members from meeting the current demand.

One of my nursing profs has her PhD in nursing and she does not have a masters degree of any kind. I dont think that she completed her PhD in nursing in Ohio, maybe Illinois....

spaniel · Jun 28, 2005

To be honest I am seeing relatively few openings for asst/assoc or full professors. I do see openings for adjuncts, and of course, the pay is low for them. I live in NY State. Interestingly I do see ads for LPN instructors at the high school level but these require at least provisional teaching certificates (at least 9 credits of ed. and student teaching).

fry.girl · Jun 28, 2005

I know of 3 universities here in Alabama that do the BSN-PhD program. I would like to have my doctorate, but I dont want to do the research route. I would much rather have it in Nursing Practice because it is more hands on or clinical based. However, with that being a fairly new concept there arent that many programs. The closest one to me is a FNP/DNP program (at UofT Memphis). I am already enrolled in an FNP program, so that one isnt very helpful to me.
If the program wasnt 4 yrs POST master's and if I could find the money, Id definitely go for it.

Cardio Trans,

RUSH has an Online DNP that can be completed in 2 years post Masters.

http://www.rushu.rush.edu/nursing/online.html

Cheri :)

christvs, DNP, RN, NP · Jul 2, 2005

In almost every major, the progression of degrees goes straight from BS/BA to the Ph.D. That means a kid graduates from college in 05 and has his final degree by 09 (if all goes well.)
Maybe things have changed, but last time I checked, nurses had to get their MSN before they could enroll in the PhD program, THEN completing the PhD took another 4 years minimum.
Is this not foolish (and costly in time and money)? It seems to me that a Masters graduate should have done sufficient classroom study to "master" a subject of interest and should then be able to begin the research portion of a PhD program, completing and defending a dissertation in two years.
Our state does not have a PhD in nursing program, so I haven't kept up on how it's being done nationally. How is it done where you live? Would you be more inclined to sign up for the PhD program if you could complete it in two years?
Another difference between nursing and other majors: I got my PhD in one of the hard sciences. My major professor supported my tuition and gave me a stipend. The degree didn't cost me any money. If more faculty had more research funding, there should be support for predoctoral students. If you could have tuition and a stipend, would this influence your decision to do a doctoral program?
Just curious about barriers (if any) that keep the number of potential faculty members from meeting the current demand.

I just graduated with my BSN. I plan on eventually getting my MSN to be a nurse practitioner. After that I would like to pursue a PhD, but am not sure in what. Before I went to nursing school, I studied biology (focused in immunology) and have a BS and MS in biology also. So I was thinking I may one day want to get my PhD in a biological science. I may even want to teach at the college level someday also-both nursing and biological sciences ( i have had some teaching practice already because I was a biology teaching assistant in biology grad school) I have no interest whatsoever in getting a PhD in nursing if the focus of my studies will be in research and theory. I would consider getting a PhD in nursing if the focus could be on clinical practice-like a doctorate of nursing-clinical studies or something. Unfortunately, I have not seen any programs like that in my state-Mass.

-Christine

GrnHonu99, RN · Jul 2, 2005

I would consider getting a PhD in nursing if the focus could be on clinical practice-like a doctorate of nursing-clinical studies or something. Unfortunately, I have not seen any programs like that in my state-Mass.
-Christine

I live in Ohio and I would be interested in pursuing that degree as well, but I havent seen any of them in my state either.

tmarie75 · Jul 3, 2005

the ana has recently stated that in 2015 a doctorate will be required to become a nurse practitioner, so there will be more out there besides a ph.d. in nursing theory/research. so anybody wanting to become an np without having to get that doctorate better do so within the next 10 years!!

christvs, DNP, RN, NP · Jul 3, 2005

the ana has recently stated that in 2015 a doctorate will be required to become a nurse practitioner, so there will be more out there besides a ph.d. in nursing theory/research. so anybody wanting to become an np without having to get that doctorate better do so within the next 10 years!!

you're right! i read that too somewhere but had forgotten that. wow, i wonder which extra types of classes they'll make students take in the np phd program that the np msn program doesn't have now. but you know what i keep thinking? how patients will be really confused to have someone who is not a "doctor" who is a nurse take care of them but they still call him/her dr! talk about confusing! i don't know if i think their proposal is a good thing or not, i just think about how confused some poor patients will be about what to call nps! it's kind of funny when you think about it. :)

mwbeah · Jul 4, 2005

the ana has recently stated that in 2015 a doctorate will be required to become a nurse practitioner, so there will be more out there besides a ph.d. in nursing theory/research. so anybody wanting to become an np without having to get that doctorate better do so within the next 10 years!!

the ana cannot agree on standards and does not accredit any doctoral programs, i believe the information you received or was told in incorrect.

mike

is a doctorate in your future?

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by debra wood, rn, contributor

a doctoral degree can open doors for nurses and help shape and advance their profession as researchers, faculty or leaders of business and industry. however, a serious shortage of doctorally prepared nurses exists and the number of new graduates decreased almost 10 percent last year.

"for nursing to continue to evolve, we are going to need to create new knowledge and verify what exists, and the way to do that is with the structure of a doctoral program in nursing," said dan pesut, ph.d., aprn, bc, faan, president of the honor society of nursing, sigma theta tau international. "a ph.d. enables a person to structure his or her curiosity in a useful way and contribute to a community of science, so care can be improved."

pesut's interest in methods patients use to cope with disfigurement and disease led him to investigate how patients help themselves recover. he built on his findings to help other patients develop similar skills.

"i took a clinical curiosity about what patients were doing in the background and brought it into the light," said pesut, who is also a professor and chair of the department of environments for health at indiana university school of nursing in indianapolis, indiana. "you can take the invisible and make it visible through the research process."

in addition, the degree offers prospects for personal growth and new career directions. it represents the highest credential in the field.

nora triola, ph.d., rn, vice president of nursing and patient care services for clarian health partners' methodist hospital in indianapolis, routinely draws on skills she developed while pursuing her doctoral degree.

"doctoral preparation expands your horizons as far as leadership opportunities within health care and industry systems," said karin polifko-harris, ph.d., rn, cnaa, associate dean of academic and student affairs at the university of florida college of nursing in gainesville, florida.

yet despite the benefits, nursing suffers from a severe shortage of doctorally prepared nurses. eighty-eight universities offer doctoral degrees. most of them--74--grant doctor of philosophy (ph.d.) degrees. the rest offer a doctor of nursing education (ed.d.), designed for educators; a doctor of nursing science (dnsc or dns), with similar curriculum to a ph.d.; or a doctor of nursing practice (dnp), with a focus on the application of research.

"it appeals to nurses working in practice, rather than focusing their careers on research activities in the academic community," said jean bartels, ph.d., rn, president of the american association of colleges of nursing (aacn). "people with a ph.d. can still practice as well, but usually a ph.d. leads to a lifetime of intellectual inquiry, creative scholarship and research."

aacn reports 454 students graduated from a doctoral nursing program in 2003, and 3,496 were enrolled. every year until 2012, 200 to 300 doctorally prepared faculty are expected to retire.

"when you cannot replace those with [nurses] in the pipeline, there you will be no one to teach nurses and it will exacerbate the nursing shortage," bartels said.

aware of the problem, schools of nursing are looking for ways to make the educational process easier for nurses. the university of florida has formed a cooperative doctoral nursing program with three other north florida universities. it blends interactive classroom distance-learning with clinical research conducted closer to home.

linda finke, rn, ph.d., director of the professional development center at sigma theta tau international, said educators also are finding ways to speed the time it takes to obtain a degree and to bring nurses into the programs earlier.

nurses can expect to spend about three years obtaining a terminal degree, if they return to school full time, longer if they attend part time, as many nurses do. nurses find it hard to leave established careers, teaching positions and families and to adjust to the lack of income, on top of the cost of tuition and books.

"we offer a stipend and scholarships but not to the manner most of us became accustomed to in our practice, and it's a shock to the system," said gayle page, dsnc, rn, faan, director of the johns hopkins school of nursing ph.d. program.

traditionally, nurses practiced for several years before pursing advanced degrees, but many educators and other leaders in the field no longer feel that time providing hands-on care is a necessary prerequisite.

"we've had several students who go straight through, and they are doing great," page said. "if we practice five years between each degree, we're going to be 10 years older than the basic science ph.d., and the scientific lifetime from graduating to the time we retire is shorter by those years we spent time practicing."

the university of florida, as well as several other schools, offers a bsn to ph.d. program. students work on doctoral coursework while completing master's level curriculum. attending full time, they can attain a doctorate in about four years.

"it's a mechanism to encourage bright, talented bsn graduates to move into graduate study without the traditional start-stop," said ann horgas, rn, ph.d., associate dean for research at the university of florida college of nursing.

"the nature of doctoral study completely differs from undergraduate work and master's level work," horgas continued. "there is a socialization process and that involves working directly with faculty and getting immersed in the research environment."

when considering a doctoral degree, nurses should carefully assess the institution's faculty expertise, not just their credentials but whether they have experience conducting research similar to the candidate's area of interest.

aacn does not accredit doctoral programs. the association has published guidelines outlining quality indicators of research-focused doctoral programs. finding the right faculty match is critical.

"if you want to be a researcher, you have got to be in a relationship with a faculty person where you are shoulder to shoulder learning the ropes," page said. "if you do not have a good mentoring situation, it is tough to do well after you graduate."

armed with a doctoral degree, new knowledge and the power of scholarship, nurses can steer the future of nursing as they teach, lead our hospitals and investigate the most effective ways to care for patients.

"a doctorate is the best thing you can do if you like to learn and love nursing and the people we care for," page said. "we can move forward in our preparation, so we can care for them even better. that's what it is all about."

resource:

indicators of quality in research-focused doctoral programs in nursing

Tweety, BSN, RN · Jul 4, 2005

The University of South Florida in Tampa has a BSN to PhD program.

You have to have letters of reference and be in the top 10% of your BSN class, among other requirements. http://hsc.usf.edu/nursing/students/prospects/bsn_to_phd_checklist.pdf

Here's the course of study:

http://hsc.usf.edu/nocms/nursing/Programs_of_Study/bstophd.html