Professional Nurse: BSN VS ADN... need help...

[weirdRN]

Hi,

I am working on an assignment for school. I am in my last semester of an ADN program.

The assignment is to think about my definition of what a Professional Nurse is and how the current nursing image is impacting it.

I was wondering what everyone thought of BSN and ADN educations. The reason I ask is that I found an ancient article on professional nursing that stated that an ADN is a technical Nurse and the BSN is the professional Nurse. I thought, what does it matter? both are held to the same standards of practice, the same workload, responsibilities ect. How can one be professional and one just be technical?

I would appreciate any thoughts on this as it will enhance my response assignment.

Thanks

Kristie

I do not understand how the two are different, except that the BSN has more stuff for community based nursing in it and the ADN is focused mostly on Hospital based nursing.

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

WTG, stepping right into the koolaid with your first post.

A batchelor's degree does NOT make a person a professional. Professionalism does. You would do well to keep that little fact in mind.

There is no universally accepted definition of a "profession". You're describing professional nursing in terms of their behavior, i.e. professional behavior and practice.

Others define is as a self-governing and regulating, automomous practice, requires training and practice, blah blah blah with a BSN.

Rather than tout your definition as fact, you should consider that other's don't hold to that view.

You're right Marla, this thread is doomed. LOL

[weirdRN, RN]

And while we are at it...

What is the image of nursing today? Who are we? What do we look like? Where are we found? How can I discern another of my sisters or brothers?

[gwenith, BSN, RN]

Wow gwenith,

That is amazing. So you say that even though the profession has gone to a single entry point, At the Bachelor's Degree level, Nurse still are daily disrespected in general by the larger healthcare community?

No merely disempowered

[caroladybelle, BSN, RN]

Places that require a BSN, correct me if I am wrong, include Canada, Australia and the Phillipines.

And exactly how much better are they treated because they are all "professionals"?

[PANurseRN1]

Look at how much having a BSN has helped nurses in the Phillipines; they're stampeding to get into the US, leaving the Phillipines with a serious nursing shortage of their own.

I don't think that anyone disputes that having a BSN is a good thing, but to say that diploma/ADNs are dragging down the profession...sorry, that's a very naive sort of statement that sounds suspiciously like something parroted by a student who believes everything her professors say. The real world is quite different.

[clee1]

There is no universally accepted definition of a "profession". You're describing professional nursing in terms of their behavior, i.e. professional behavior and practice.

Others define is as a self-governing and regulating, automomous practice, requires training and practice, blah blah blah with a BSN.

Rather than tout your definition as fact, you should consider that other's don't hold to that view.

You're right Marla, this thread is doomed. LOL

Points taken and stipulated, Tweety. It's just the "the whole problem with nursing is that not everyone is a BSN" point-of-view that grates on my nerves. :angryfire The BSN is relatively "new" in the world of nursing; what in the world did we all do for nurses BEFORE the education industry took over the training of health "professionals"????

I view it simply as this: nursing is an art as well as a science. Not all the college coursework in art history, style, etc. in the world will make an "artist" of someone - neither will all the nursing "education" in the world make someone a competent nurse.

[wildcat81]

I have my Bachelor's degree. I spent four years out of my life in college achieving it. It's not saying that one is more professional than another but it's preparing you for going to get a Master's or nurse practioner. It is more school and cultural based. I actually feel the Adn programs get more hands on experience in their training--whereas the BSN programs work on research, community nursing, and teaching. I've been a nurse for 25 years and the only job that I actually got paid more for having my bsn was in home care, but that since has changed.

Would I get my bsn all over again? That depends on what I want as my final career position. I am not one to want to climb the ladder but they want master's in nurse managers at my hospital so that is something to think about. If I was single and had the money and time, I'd say go for it. There really is no regret.:balloons:

[grannynurse FNP student]

Actually the push to make the BSN the only entry level, for RN's, started back in the middle 60s when I first started in my diploma program. It was defined by the ANA and has been pushed ever since. Associate degree programs came into the picture in the late 50s, as an answer to a preceived coming shortage and a belief that nurses could be 'trained' in two years. Is having to take the History of Nursing and living in the time period just grand And I use the word trained because that is what most of us two and three year programs, we were not educated. BSN graduates were educated because of the requirements of their program. Also, the ANA recommended that all two year graduates be grandfathered in as professional nurses. The term technical was to be reserved for all future nurses after a given date. And they would be encouraged to go for their BSN.

With PT, OT and others requiring a MS, a push is presently on to make the only entry level the MSN. It would require a five year course of study. And it is not as impossible as some would think. I worked with students obtaining only their MSN, back in the early 70's.

Grannynurse:balloons:

[VivaLasViejas, ASN, RN]

I'd probably have gone for my BSN, or even MSN, if I'd been younger and childless---to say nothing of living closer than 70 miles to the nearest four-year nursing program---when I was in nursing school. Life and its exigencies being what they are, however, I had to 'settle' for an ADN so I could get out there and make some money to support my family; now that I'm pushing 50 and contented with my station in life, I don't have the slightest wish to struggle through organic chemistry or statistics. I have no burning desire to stand in long lines and fight to get into classes again, add to my mountain of debt, figure out where I'm going to do my clinicals in addition to my full-time job, or pay boo-coo bucks for general ed courses that have no relevance to MY life as a middle-aged mother, grandmother and working woman.

Besides, I've done pretty well with my two-year degree, mainly because life is an education in itself. I've made it into administration on my knowledge, skills, and street smarts, and I'm viewed as a professional by both the public and my peers. It's just never been an issue. Other than teaching, which I would dearly have loved to do, I don't feel like I've missed out on many opportunities for lack of a higher degree.........but then, maybe I'm just different because I'm older and I make my own rules, or because I refuse to let others' biases stop me from doing what I want to do.

[SuesquatchRN, BSN, RN]

The problem is that if some truly believes that the profession is lessened by an entry level of ADN and says so it's considered devisive and insulting.

I think that there are ways to say things and ways to say things.

I plan to go further in my studies. That does not, however, mean that I consider those who choose not to to be lesser nurses. Specifically, though, I take affront at the implication that the only reason everyone who stays at the ADN level does so because s/he's lazy.

Besides, what are we now going to call LPNs? Not-quite-nurses? Do they no longer belong in our membership?

I don't know. I just know that I am thrilled to be entering this profession with what some people will regard as my little less-than ADN. I also know that I have a bazillion credits but have never managed to collect them in one place to get the degree. I'm now back in school for my fourth career change - outsourcing has definitely affected my life - and have a lot of training and diplomas and certifications and licenses behind me. I have a demonstrated ability to learn and learn quickly and well, and believe I deserve respect, as do all of those older diploma nurses.

My husband's mother was commissioned during WW II and served in Africa. She was a diploma nurse. She was a professional. She was cited for meritorious service. I am very proud of her.

And now I'll shut up and stay out of future discussions of this issue.

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

Look at how much having a BSN has helped nurses in the Phillipines; they're stampeding to get into the US, leaving the Phillipines with a serious nursing shortage of their own..

The only reason the BSN is the standard in the Phillipines because it is the minimum the US will accept from them to immigrate to the USA. Interesting that we require it of them but not ourselves.

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

Points taken and stipulated, Tweety. It's just the "the whole problem with nursing is that not everyone is a BSN" point-of-view that grates on my nerves. :angryfire The BSN is relatively "new" in the world of nursing; what in the world did we all do for nurses BEFORE the education industry took over the training of health "professionals"????

I view it simply as this: nursing is an art as well as a science. Not all the college coursework in art history, style, etc. in the world will make an "artist" of someone - neither will all the nursing "education" in the world make someone a competent nurse.

Good post and I agree.