Pro Life?

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Just wondering how the pro lifers feel about this?

7 years old and I wonder how much happiness she was able to accumulate? 

I personally think that children until the age of thirteen should only be allowed to be children and play to their hearts content with some structure for education etc. 

I wonder how many opportunities this little girl had to do that and who should bear the responsibility? 

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1 hour ago, Cclm said:

There us a difference between abortion and induced labor. Abortion ends the pregnancy in the womb, inducing labor delivers a possibly viable baby. There is no need to end a pregnancy in the uterus after 24 week for the mothers health or safety. That's early birth. If baby dies after, still not an abortion. Did you learn that 40 years ago? 

The only reason would be to not want the pregnancy. 

You are confused as to terminology. Per Tabor's medical dictionary.  

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Abortion:

The spontaneous or induced termination of pregnancy before the fetus reaches a viable age. The legal definition of viability (usually 20 to 24 weeks’ gestation) differs from state to state. Some premature neonates of less than 24 weeks’ gestation or 500 g are viable. Symptoms of spontaneous abortion include abdominal cramps and lady partsl bleeding, sometimes with the passage of clots or bits of tissue.

According to the American Heritage Medical dictionary abortion is defined more generally and doesn't mention viability.  

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a. Induced termination of a pregnancy with destruction of the embryo or fetus.

b. Any of various procedures that result in the termination of a pregnancy. Also called induced abortion.

Elective termination can involve induction of labor. Are you arguing that there are no medical complications of pregnancy which threaten the lives of the pregnant woman? Really?

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9 hours ago, Beerman said:

Sure.  We're supposed to believe you remember what you learned about abortions in nursing school vs what you learned in the 40 plus years since.

Being that abortions were just coming out of the shadows, so to speak, and being openly talked about, I'd say it's very plausible that it's fairly memorable. Considering it's a very touchy subject, makes it all the more believable 

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22 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

You are confused as to terminology. Per Tabor's medical dictionary.  

According to the American Heritage Medical dictionary abortion is defined more generally and doesn't mention viability.  

Elective termination can involve induction of labor. Are you arguing that there are no medical complications of pregnancy which threaten the lives of the pregnant woman? Really?

There is a difference between elective abortion and induction of early labor. 

There is no medical indication to stop the fetal heartbeat before removing the fetus. 

The only reason the heart beat would be stopped is if possibly the pregnancy is being terminated because of defect and would cause suffering of the fetus when born. Or the fetus is not wanted. 

All the risk to mothers listed here are the same as a woman wanting her pregnancy but has to deliver because of the risk to her health/life. 

Any procedure that stops the fetal heartbeat before the fetus is removed has nothing to do with risk to life or health. 

Stopping a fetal heartbeat has no health or life preserving indication for the mother. 

If mothers life is at risk, remove the baby absolutely. 

 

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Again extremes. Texas abortion law is stupid because of the bounty on anyone facilitating abortion and reporting that. 

The woman's protection act is stupid because it does not give clarification on stage of pregnancy and the definition of "risk to life AND risk to health. 

I can't support either. However if I absolutely have to choose, it would be texas as I could not morally accept having an abortion in very late pregnancy as the procedure is the same for women who want their babies and have to deliver early. All the reason for late term abortion are the same for early delivery except the layer the baby always dies. 

Just now, Cclm said:

Again extremes. Texas abortion law is stupid because of the bounty on anyone facilitating abortion and reporting that. 

The woman's protection act is stupid because it does not give clarification on stage of pregnancy and the definition of "risk to life AND risk to health. 

I can't support either. However if I absolutely have to choose, it would be texas as I could not morally accept having an abortion in very late pregnancy as the procedure is the same for women who want their babies and have to deliver early. All the reason for late term abortion are the same for early delivery except the latter as the baby always dies as intended. 

 

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7 minutes ago, Cclm said:

There is a difference between elective abortion and induction of early labor. 

There is no medical indication to stop the fetal heartbeat before removing the fetus. 

The only reason the heart beat would be stopped is if possibly the pregnancy is being terminated because of defect and would cause suffering of the fetus when born. Or the fetus is not wanted. 

All the risk to mothers listed here are the same as a woman wanting her pregnancy but has to deliver because of the risk to her health/life. The only difference is the baby always dies with the abortion. 

Any procedure that stops the fetal heartbeat before the fetus is removed has nothing to do with risk to life or health. 

Stopping a fetal heartbeat has no health or life preserving indication for the mother. 

If mothers life is at risk, remove the baby absolutely. 

 

 

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52 minutes ago, Cclm said:

There is a difference between elective abortion and induction of early labor. 

There is no medical indication to stop the fetal heartbeat before removing the fetus. 

The only reason the heart beat would be stopped is if possibly the pregnancy is being terminated because of defect and would cause suffering of the fetus when born. Or the fetus is not wanted. 

All the risk to mothers listed here are the same as a woman wanting her pregnancy but has to deliver because of the risk to her health/life. 

Any procedure that stops the fetal heartbeat before the fetus is removed has nothing to do with risk to life or health. 

Stopping a fetal heartbeat has no health or life preserving indication for the mother. 

If mothers life is at risk, remove the baby absolutely. 

 

Who said that the heart beat is terminated? The labor is induced and the fetus is delivered because it cannot remain in utero for reasons like pre-eclampsia. If the baby is significantly preterm or has complication related to the mom's illness, there's not much left except to wrap and hold them as long as it takes for the family to put the tiny bodies down.  The mom's may or may not be well enough to really participate in that immediate grieving.  In that world those procedures aren't referred to as abortions, that's just a technicality.  They are gut wrenching affairs.  Some staff won't participate, but that's OK...they aren't that common.  Thank God. 

My spouse de-stresses by talking. She uses other things like physical exertion and that certainly helps, but she is a talker.  She processed the trauma that comes with working in high risk obstetrics by telling me the heart breaking stories that so many people would never associate with birthing babies.  The teens that have been hiding a pregnancy, with PROM, infection and fetal demise.  The third trimester cord accident with fetal demise.  These pregnancies are terminated.  It is risky to leave the fetal remains in uterus for too long after demise.  

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3 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Who said that the heart beat is terminated? The labor is induced and the fetus is delivered because it cannot remain in utero for reasons like pre-eclampsia. If the baby is significantly preterm or has complication related to the mom's illness, there's not much left except to wrap and hold them as long as it takes for the family to put the tiny bodies down.  The mom's may or may not be well enough to really participate in that immediate grieving.  In that world those procedures aren't referred to as abortions, that's just a technicality.  They are gut wrenching affairs.  Some staff won't participate, but that's OK...they aren't that common.  Thank God. 

My spouse de-stresses by talking. She uses other things like physical exertion and that certainly helps, but she is a talker.  She processed the trauma that comes with working in high risk obstetrics by telling me the heart breaking stories that so many people would never associate with birthing babies.  The teens that have been hiding a pregnancy, with PROM, infection and fetal demise.  The third trimester cord accident with fetal demise.  These pregnancies are terminated.  It is risky to leave the fetal remains in uterus for too long after demise.  

So technically, there is no reason for late term abortion. Only emergency intervention. 

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24 minutes ago, Cclm said:

So technically, there is no reason for late term abortion. Only emergency intervention. 

Technically,  this is a tragic personal experience that involves a medical procedure ending a pregnancy that has been politicized and used to inflame emotional response in targeted audiences.  It's been used in anti-abortion messaging for many years. It's effective messaging, just not very honest.  

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15 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Technically,  this is a tragic personal experience that involves a medical procedure ending a pregnancy that has been politicized and used to inflame emotional response in targeted audiences.  It's been used in anti-abortion messaging for many years. It's effective messaging, just not very honest.  

If the fetal heartbeat is not stopped before removal, then it's not "elective abortion". It's early induction. So I'm unsure what the controversy is. Unless the pregnancy is ended because of the mother not wanting her baby anymore. In that case it's no longer for "mothers life or health" it's a termination because the baby is not wanted. But what is"health"? 

It is a tragic situation but now seems as a no big deal birth control method. 

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52 minutes ago, Cclm said:

If the fetal heartbeat is not stopped before removal, then it's not "elective abortion". It's early induction. So I'm unsure what the controversy is. Unless the pregnancy is ended because of the mother not wanting her baby anymore. In that case it's no longer for "mothers life or health" it's a termination because the baby is not wanted. But what is"health"? 

It is a tragic situation but now seems as a no big deal birth control method. 

You still make no sense. If early inductions of labor for medical reasons are not elective abortions, then why bring it up in the first place? 

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3 hours ago, Cclm said:

If the fetal heartbeat is not stopped before removal, then it's not "elective abortion". It's early induction. So I'm unsure what the controversy is. Unless the pregnancy is ended because of the mother not wanting her baby anymore. In that case it's no longer for "mothers life or health" it's a termination because the baby is not wanted. But what is"health"? 

It is a tragic situation but now seems as a no big deal birth control method. 

Don't blame me that late term obstetrical procedures have been mischaracterized and used as an emotional trigger for voter manipulation.  It only seems as a "no big deal birth control" method to some people, in my opinion. In fact, I don't think that abortion is "no big deal" to most women confronted with unexpected or unwanted pregnancy.  I wonder what causes you to feel that way. 

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44 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Don't blame me that late term obstetrical procedures have been mischaracterized and used as an emotional trigger for voter manipulation.  It only seems as a "no big deal birth control" method to some people, in my opinion. In fact, I don't think that abortion is "no big deal" to most women confronted with unexpected or unwanted pregnancy.  I wonder what causes you to feel that way. 

Is your comment "I wonder what causes you to feel that way" in reference of me sharing that I at one time made that choice? If it is, that is a new low for you. 

You claim to champion for women's rights, so empathetic  and you just made a comment suggesting that I felt that way when I made my choice?? 

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