Pro Life?

[guest1163268]

Just wondering how the pro lifers feel about this?

7 years old and I wonder how much happiness she was able to accumulate? 

I personally think that children until the age of thirteen should only be allowed to be children and play to their hearts content with some structure for education etc. 

I wonder how many opportunities this little girl had to do that and who should bear the responsibility? 

[toomuchbaloney]

26 minutes ago, Cclm said:

Okay. I see now. So this applies to a fetus? Even so, if an emergency intervention needs to take place for moms health/safety, it's really a non issue, unless the point is to deliberately end the viability of the fetus but that's different from emergency intervention. 

Let me be more precise. The pregnancy is terminated even when it is known that the fetus is not going to survive beyond the uterus.  That is what is done when the pregnancy is causing imminent threat of death for the pregnant woman. The woman must choose this or her medical advocate of she is incapacitated. 

The termination of the pregnancy IS the emergency intervention.  The pregnant woman is the patient that they are saving. 

[MunoRN, RN]

2 hours ago, Cclm said:

So the mother was dead on life support or something? ? If you think that I'm saying do not remove the fetus if the woman is dead, that is something completely different and wouldn't fall under abortion in the context we are discussing. 

That would be a choice between the Dr and the father/family. 

When I speak of heartbeat it's fetal heartbeat not mothers heartbeat. 

I realize you're referring to the fetal heartbeat.  We don't consider heartbeat alone to be a definition of life, so why would that be the case of an embryo?

[toomuchbaloney]

38 minutes ago, Cclm said:

All arguments I hear for late term abortions refers to life/safety to mom. Not unwanted pregnancy for any reason. 

Don't you think that's because the procedure is not utilized to remedy unwanted pregnancy.  The fact that you mentioned it here is evidence that 1. You read or access abortion related propaganda and 2. you believe the propaganda.

[chare]

11 minutes ago, MunoRN said:

I realize you're referring to the fetal heartbeat.  We don't consider heartbeat alone to be a definition of life, so why would that be the case of an embryo?

What criteria should be used to determine intrauterine fetal death?

[toomuchbaloney]

3 minutes ago, chare said:

What criteria should be used to determine intrauterine fetal death?

They use absence of FHR, confirmed by ultrasound. 

[MunoRN, RN]

1 minute ago, chare said:

What criteria should be used to determine intrauterine fetal death?

A non-viable fetus.  What I was referring to though is lack of logic in terms of when many people consider "life" to begin.  If it ends regardless of whether a heartbeat is still present, why would that define when it begins?

[chare]

11 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

They use absence of FHR, confirmed by ultrasound. 

Agreed.  And, if you want to use "heartbeat" as a determination of when life begins, the presence of cardiac activity on prenatal ultrasound is the best, and most accurate way that it can be determined.

[chare]

14 minutes ago, MunoRN said:

A non-viable fetus.  What I was referring to though is lack of logic in terms of when many people consider "life" to begin.  If it ends regardless of whether a heartbeat is still present, why would that define when it begins?

Thank you.  After rereading your post, it appears I misread what you wrote. 

And, I completely agree with you regarding the multiple, and often imprecise methods of determining when "life" begins. 

[Cclm, LPN]

21 hours ago, MunoRN said:

I realize you're referring to the fetal heartbeat.  We don't consider heartbeat alone to be a definition of life, so why would that be the case of an embryo?

Because in those situations there is usually trauma or disease that has caused brain death or multiple organ failure. There would be a entire medical team doing assessments and test. In a fetus that's otherwise healthy fetus this wouldn't apply. 

I'm not debating when life begins btw

[toomuchbaloney]

40 minutes ago, Cclm said:

In a fetus that's otherwise healthy fetus this wouldn't apply. 

An assumed to be otherwise healthy fetus that is in the uterus of a very unwell woman whose body is not tolerating the state of pregnancy well, at all.  For some people, it's better to terminate the pregnancy and save the woman rather than try to save the fetus at the risk of maternal death. Regardless, they should get to choose without having to worry about someone else's opinion or feelings. That's what termination of advanced  pregnancy is really about. 

[Cclm, LPN]

On 10/1/2021 at 12:27 PM, toomuchbaloney said:

An assumed to be otherwise healthy fetus that is in the uterus of a very unwell woman whose body is not tolerating the state of pregnancy well, at all.  For some people, it's better to terminate the pregnancy and save the woman rather than try to save the fetus at the risk of maternal death. Regardless, they should get to choose without having to worry about someone else's opinion or feelings. That's what termination of advanced  pregnancy is really about. 

That situation would be evident most likely in the first trimester. Again, in late pregnancy, the baby would be delivered early so I don't see why a law for abortion in later pregnancy when there is already interventions that happen for that. 

If people think it's a woman's choice to terminate pregnancy at any stage for any reason, then just say so. 

If a woman want to abort in her 7 month should it be her choice? Or 6 or 9 months? 

Just now, Cclm said:

That would be a reason for medical intervention.  Again, in late pregnancy, the baby would be delivered early so I don't see why a law for abortion in later pregnancy when there is already interventions that happen for that. 

If people think it's a woman's choice to terminate pregnancy at any stage for any reason, then just say so. 

If a woman want to abort in her 7 month should it be her choice? Or 6 or 9 months? 

 

[Cclm, LPN]

On 10/1/2021 at 12:27 PM, toomuchbaloney said:

An assumed to be otherwise healthy fetus that is in the uterus of a very unwell woman whose body is not tolerating the state of pregnancy well, at all.  For some people, it's better to terminate the pregnancy and save the woman rather than try to save the fetus at the risk of maternal death. Regardless, they should get to choose without having to worry about someone else's opinion or feelings. That's what termination of advanced  pregnancy is really about. 

Right. So a woman should have the choice to terminate her pregnancy late in pregnancy just because she wants to. This is what you are saying correct? 

And this is what the woman's protection act is saying as well.