President Biden thread

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Wow.  No one has started such a thread yet?

After promising that most K-8 students would be in schools in the first 100 days,  apparently Joe is afraid to lead on this and has drastically scaled back that goal.

Instead, we're shooting for about half to go to school at least one day a week,  by the end of April.

https://www.usnews.com/news/education-news/articles/2021-02-09/bidens-goal-for-school-reopenings-suddenly-became-more-attainable

 

toomuchbaloney said:

What memo?  

You got the memo to start crowimg about Project 2025.

toomuchbaloney said:

We could debate some of the plusses of Protect 2025 now because some of them were on Trump's original agenda.  Dismantling our department of education for instance.  Maybe you recall that Trump and Mulvaney and DeVos intended to make the department of education a subdivision of the department of Labor, to train the workforce as a primary goal. 

Project 2025 calls for abolishing the Dept of Education.  I don't know the details, but at face value that isn't something I'd be in favor of.

Trump didn't want to abolish or dismantle it.  He wanted to combine it with the Dept of Labor.

https://www.edweek.org/policy-politics/trump-officially-proposes-merging-u-s-departments-of-education-labor/2018/06

Nothing too radical, per this article.   Seems worthy of consideration, at least.  What were your objections?

I think you just showed us that a vote for Trump does not equal a vote for Project 2025.  Nice job!

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Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
Beerman said:

Yes we should detain those who entered illiegally.  Its a great deterrent.   We do hold people in jail for other (not all) misdemeanors.  Usually they are provided a option to post a bond.  Some Jan 6 rioters were held for trespassing charges.

And, it's only a misdemeanor the first time.  Repeat offending is a felony.

Illegal immigrants all had the opportunity to come by legal means.  They use up resources that is unsustainable and clog up the system that impacts those immigrating legally.  They are criminals.

I'm not sure that hate crimes can be blamed on the president.  And, there are a lot of variables that effect the data.  But, if you want to play that way, hate crimes have increased dramatically under Biden's watch.

https://www.justice.gov/hatecrimes/hate-crime-statistics

https://usafacts.org/articles/hate-crime-data-value-expanding-our-sources/

 

 

Yep... detain them on our tax dollars rather than releasing them and letting them work, which is what they want. 

Our legal immigration process and laws are broken and we need congress to do their jobs rather than campaign on a broken border and immigration system. 

I didn't blame hate crimes on a president, I mentioned the correlation. It's important, however, to note that the most prevalent and dangerous hate groups in the USA are right wing extremist groups. The FBI Director had testified about this multiple times.  

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toomuchbaloney said:

Yep... detain them on our tax dollars rather than releasing them and letting them work, which is what they want. 

Our legal immigration process and laws are broken and we need congress to do their jobs rather than campaign on a broken border and immigration system. 

Yes, it would cost us tax dollars for detention, but the numbers would go down.  Likely costing us less in resources everywhere else.

Should we stop prosecuting crimes because it costs money to do so?

In short, you're in favor of open borders.  We'll just have to agree to disagree.  Not much else to discuss.

toomuchbaloney said:

Yep... detain them on our tax dollars rather than releasing them and letting them work, which is what they want. 

Our legal immigration process and laws are broken and we need congress to do their jobs rather than campaign on a broken border and immigration system. 

I didn't blame hate crimes on a president, I mentioned the correlation. 

If you're going to assume a correlation between Trump and increasing hate crimes, then what's your correlation between Biden and a dramatic increase in hate crimes?

toomuchbaloney said:

 It's important, however, to note that the most prevalent and dangerous hate groups in the USA are right wing extremist groups. The FBI Director had testified about this multiple times.  

You could be right.  I'm not sure why "it's important to note"?

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Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
Beerman said:

Let's keep in mind this conversation was brought up in the context of voting for candidates who "believe in climate change".

No, not against conservation or green energy.  However, in absence of any evidence that we need to act drastically today, I'm only willing to sacrifice so much (as most of us), and don't see it as a voting issue.  Especially when many politicians don't know what they're doing and/or are hypocritical in regards to the issue.

I agree.

Well, it seems fool hardy to vote for politicians who don't value scientific analysis and guidance, especially when that science affects every single aspect of life on earth.

Your comment about most politicians not knowing or being hypocritical about the topic in this conservative world where politicians make health decisions for women and decide the scientific and ecological rules and regulations for businesses instead of doctors and scientists made me chuckle.  The conservative SCOTUS just said that politicians decide these things... not scientists.  

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toomuchbaloney said:

Your comment about most politicians not knowing or being hypocritical about the topic in this conservative world where politicians make health decisions for women and decide the scientific and ecological rules and regulations for businesses instead of doctors and scientists made me chuckle.  The conservative SCOTUS just said that politicians decide these things... not scientists.  

Sorry to burst your bubble, but abortion also isn't a voting issue for me.   And,  I probably agree with you on that issue more than disagree.   

There is neverending foolishness on this on both sides.

Chuckle away.

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toomuchbaloney said:

What memo?  

I think that was a bit below the belt of an insult.  At first @beerman claims it was obscure and he never heard of it until it was mentioned here.  Then now it's a rallying cry of democrats whose propaganda bait you took.

People are criticizing Project 2025 should be given some benefit of the doubt that we aren't buying into fear mongering, but taking a look inside the mind of the ultra-conservative and making our own judgement of it.  

Sure, a lot of left side media like Rachel Maddow, Brian Tyler Cohen, Reid and Chris Hayes are picking it apart and commenting on it, but it's fascinating to me, but not in a good way, especially considering four former Trump cabinet members are on the Heritage Foundation.

It's worth commenting on.

Fun times.

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I was pretty disappointed in Biden when he didn't take this week to make an exit from the race.  

Seems major donors are as well and putting the pressure on him.  Money talks and the wealthy have considerable power in America.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/04/democratic-donors-won't-finance-party-until-joe-biden-drops-out.html

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Tweety said:

I think that was a bit below the belt of an insult.  At first @beerman claims it was obscure and he never heard of it until it was mentioned here.  Then now it's a rallying cry of democrats whose propaganda bait you took.

People are criticizing Project 2025 should be given some benefit of the doubt that we aren't buying into fear mongering, but taking a look inside the mind of the ultra-conservative and making our own judgement of it.  

Sure, a lot of left side media like Rachel Maddow, Brian Tyler Cohen, Reid and Chris Hayes are picking it apart and commenting on it, but it's fascinating to me, but not in a good way, especially considering four former Trump cabinet members are on the Heritage Foundation.

It's worth commenting on.

Fun times.

I hadn't heard of it.  It apparently isn't new, but when I Googled it, there sure were a lot of stories from the past week.  Coincidently,  I guess,  it was mentioned here for the first time.

Not anymore of an insult than when people here frequently accuse me of making right wing talking points, or parroting Fox News.

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Beerman said:

Yes, it would cost us tax dollars for detention, but the numbers would go down.  Likely costing us less in resources everywhere else.

Should we stop prosecuting crimes because it costs money to do so?

In short, you're in favor of open borders.  We'll just have to agree to disagree.  Not much else to discuss.

If you're going to assume a correlation between Trump and increasing hate crimes, then what's your correlation between Biden and a dramatic increase in hate crimes?

You could be right.  I'm not sure why "it's important to note"?

Likely costing less based upon what predictive metric?

What a silly question from a fellow who is upset that Trump's crimes are getting investigated and prosecuted. Detaining people for simple misdemeanor immigration charges is silly and costly. 

In short, you've just attempted to create a strawman argument while misrepresenting my stance.  There's definitely not much to discuss when one engages in that dishonest fashion.  

I'd say the correlation is that the right wing extremist hate crimes continue to be motivated and inspired by the right wing extremist language of right wing extremists who have platforms in this country.  The extremist rhetoric is commonplace in Trump's political movement.  

https://www.csis.org/analysis/escalating-terrorism-problem-united-states

Quote

This analysis makes several arguments. First, far-right terrorism has significantly outpaced terrorism from other types of perpetrators, including from far-left networks and individuals inspired by the Islamic State and al-Qaeda. Right-wing attacks and plots account for the majority of all terrorist incidents in the United States since 1994, and the total number of right-wing attacks and plots has grown significantly during the past six years. Right-wing extremists perpetrated two thirds of the attacks and plots in the United States in 2019 and over 90 percent between January 1 and May 8, 2020. Second, terrorism in the United States will likely increase over the next year in response to several factors. One of the most concerning is the 2020 U.S. presidential election, before and after which extremists may resort to violence, depending on the outcome of the election.

I guess the correlation between Biden and that rise in right wing hate crimes and violence could be associated with their intense dislike of Biden and the Trumpian belief that Biden and leftists are evil and are ruining their country.  You know, they are possibly agitated to action by Trump's lies, media exaggerations and fabricated content intended to manipulate them.  

It's important to note that the most common and dangerous type of hate crime or terrorism in the USA has been based in right wing extremism... not leftist intentions.  Biden isn't the candidate who inspires those right wing zealots, your candidate does.  Will you now deny that?  I mean, what do you think was the purpose of Trump talking about retribution during his speech in Waco? 

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Beerman said:

I hadn't heard of it.  It apparently isn't new, but when I Googled it, there sure were a lot of stories from the past week.  Coincidently,  I guess,  it was mentioned here for the first time.

Not anymore of an insult than when people here frequently accuse me of making right wing talking points, or parroting Fox News.

It makes sense that some of us are hearing about it for the first time at the same time it's becoming more of a talking point in the news and thus making it a talking point here doesn't it?  Talking about news stories doesn't necessarily mean spewing out propaganda.

But fair enough and perhaps I was looking at it from my perspective because I don't do that and didn't realize you did.  Trading an insult for an insult isn't too classy but understood.  

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toomuchbaloney said:

Likely costing less based upon what predictive metric?

What a silly question from a fellow who is upset that Trump's crimes are getting investigated and prosecuted. Detaining people for simple misdemeanor immigration charges is silly and costly. 

In short, you've just attempted to create a strawman argument while misrepresenting my stance.  There's definitely not much to discuss when one engages in that dishonest fashion.  

Not dishonest at all.

You said you don't think of illegal immigrants as criminals.  You're not for any kind of detention.  You think they should be released into the country to work.

Those are things you've said.  

I'm going to assume (correct me if I'm wrong) once they're here for awhile working, get married,  kids, etc. you'll want amnesty for them.

As far as I can tell, you don't want to stop people from coming illegally.

Sounds llike a open border policy to me.

 

 

 

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Tweety said:

I was pretty disappointed in Biden when he didn't take this week to make an exit from the race.  

Seems major donors are as well and putting the pressure on him.  Money talks and the wealthy have considerable power in America.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/04/democratic-donors-won't-finance-party-until-joe-biden-drops-out.html

Joe understands that an exit from the race is not called for nor wise. The pundits and talking heads sure are having a heyday.  Did you know that debate performance is not predictive of election results?  Lots and lots of people watched that debate and came away understanding exactly how dangerous and delusional of a candidate Biden is facing off against.  

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