President Biden thread

Beerman said:

Those goslposts must be mounted on wheels.

So, to fully answer my question, do you stand in the belief of most Americans in that he has acted unethically?  Or do you stand in the belief he has done nothing wrong?

 

  I stand in the belief that if Biden has broken the law and should be impeached that the republican congress, spending time and tax payer money investigating those suspicions, will find the relevant evidence.  The alternatives are that those Republicans are incompetent investigators or that there is no evidence to be found.  Let's wait and see if this GOP attempt to find fault fails as badly as their Bengazi investigations failed.  Or maybe the point of those investigations wasn't to find answers but rather to damage the reputation of a political opponent to the republican presidential candidate at that time.  

Unless you are a Trump supporter, it's difficult to believe that Biden is guilty of doing something wrong when there has been no evidence of wrong doing presented by his critics and political opponents. 

Beerman said:

I'm not aware of 11 woman who have made the claim that Trump has raped them.  Do you have a source?  As far as I know,  law enforcement has never received such a complaint.  IDK what the truth is.  Neither do you.  It's also interesting that Caroll posted in social media years after the supposed rape that she was a fan of The Apprentice.  That seems a bit odd to me.  It seems obvious she's looking to cash in.

No one has been prosecuted by the state of NY, nor has the state sued on behalf of others for over inflating their self worth on loan and insurance applications. 

Until now.

And, his bankruptcies have nothing to do with this case. Except that those giving him loans surely were aware of them when they gave the loans that they made money on when he paid them back.

The AG ran on a get Trump agenda.  She's not trying this case, but reportedly is there everyday in the courtroom observing and for her face to be seen.  Seems like the AG of NY probably has other things to be doing?

I don't have any kind of personal relationship or warm fuzzy feelings for Trump.  I don't even want him to he the Republican candidate.

But, this is a total witchunt, and it should trouble all of us.

 

It would trouble me a lot more if James didn't go after him.  He broke the law.  He lied on loan applications .  Should be give him a free ride?  No, some people WEREN'T aware of the inflation/depreciation cycles of Trump's finances.  Who gets hurt when someone lies on a loan application?  How about the lender for one?  When the property owner undervalues the property, they pay less in taxes which means that us "losers" and "suckers" have to pick up the rest.

Beerman said:

I expect Elton John to soon be prosecuted or sued for fraud.

https://www.housebeautiful.com/design-inspiration/real-estate/g45230158/elton-john-selling-atlanta-condominium/

 

Are you confused about what is honest and what is dishonest in property valuations? We have a system of right and wrong that is supposed to keep us relatively honest.  

Right now that legal system has lots of evidence of Trump's very loose relationship with truth and rules.  Trump has intentionally ruffled lots of feathers and motivated people to look into his stuff.  To date, so much evidence has been uncovered in those inquiries that he has 91 indictments and has been found liable for both sexual abuse (rape in most jurisdictions) and fraud in NY. He will learn what that fraud will cost him after this current phase of testimony and evidence. 

Meanwhile, there is no evidence that Joe Biden committed  fraud.  There is no evidence that he engaged in corrupt dealings with anyone.  There is no evidence that Joe Biden was engaged in Hunter Biden's business dealings.  There are only claims and suspicions and suggestions and speculation from his political opposition. Most importantly, there is no evidence that Joe Biden stole the election even though Trump campaigns successfully on that to this day. It is interesting that House Republicans haven't investigated that Biden crime, right? It's a big deal to steal an election, don't you think? I think they are scared.

Evidence of wrong doing on Elton John's part would be necessary to pursue prosecution, would you agree? Are you suggesting that it should be illegal to profit from celebrity or a branded name in a capitalist society? If not, can you explain how you find this real estate sale relevant to our discussion? 

Maybe it was a joke.  

Beerman said:

You tell me.  Trump only said a property was worth one price, and a judge agreed with a attorney, without ANY witness testifying, that it wasn't worth as much as he said.

You asked for one price, assuming with the expert advice of someone who knows the worth of your property, and sold it for a higher price.  Based on the logic that Trump committed fraud, sure seems like you knowingly did as well.

In realty, one can have a opinion of the worth of their property.  I might put on a heloc application my home is worth $2 million dollars.  A bank is going to do their due diligence and decide how much they will loan to me regardless of what I think it's worth.

There has been much talk about lack.of proof that Biden has done anything wrong.  When asked about the proof that Trump has defrauded the people of New York, it's the one decision that one political activist judge made.  And that judge made it without hearing any witnesses such as experts in the industry or from any supposed victim.

It's a sham.

 

It sounds like you are listening to some very Trump friendly analysis of his fraud case.  Do you read Forbes?

While you ignore the decades of intentional property value variations, demonstrated clearly in documents presented as evidence in the NY Trump fraud case, there is no evidence of fraud linked to Joe Biden. There is no evidence that he broke laws in NY or DC or his home state.  There is no evidence that Biden took bribes or worked with Hunter. There is no evidence that points to a need to impeach a corrupt and dangerous president.  There is only speculation and unsubstantiated claims from partisans and politicians. The evidence of Biden's crimes presented by congressional Republicans to-date reflects that there is no evidence to impeach or indict Biden.  

Please let us know if any evidence of wrong doing shows up in those emails. 

Beerman said:

You tell me.

Selling a property like we've discussed before is capitalism.  A seller decides on the price they want to sell it for based on a lot of things.  If competition in the market causes a rise in price then the seller takes the highest bid.  

I am not getting the connection between Elton John's real estate deal at significant profit and Trump.  "James has accused Trump, his family business, his adult sons and many other defendants of manipulating financial statements, asset values and Trump's net worth to defraud banks and insurers."

How does the above charges against Trump, relate to people bidding above my asking price and me taking it and thus committing fraud?  

If it indeed is a sham and I'm not saying it isn't, and he seems quite confident it is, then he has nothing to worry about.  He perhaps can counter sue for bringing up false charges.  

Beerman said:

In the case of Trump fraud case, you seem satisfied with what the NY AG tells us.

For me the difference, and I'm not saying I believe anything until the verdicts are made, is that in Trump's case, indictments have been made and there is a trial happening.  Does the AG have the power to bring sham charges to a trial and get a judge to participate?   Right now it's an apples to oranges kind of thing when it comes to Biden and Trump.    It seems reasonable to have two opinions that aren't quite equal.  In my opinion.

Heck even moderate republicans aren't sold on the idea just yet.

Quote

But even as their endgame comes into focus, it's unclear how long the effort will take or whether House Republicans leading the effort will be able to convince enough of their GOP colleagues that Biden himself committed any high crimes or misdemeanors – a key hurdle that they have yet to overcome.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/06/politics/impeachment-inquiry-house-republicans/index.html

Beerman said:

There is different degrees of evidence in both the Trump case and the Biden family corruption.

As I said earlier, evidence as proof is often subjective.  In the case of the corrupt Biden family, you seem to want smoking gun with fingerprints proof.

In the case of Trump fraud case, you seem satisfied with what the NY AG tells us.

My opinion is based on what I've read, including  opinions here, and my life experiences.  Yes, I've heard Trump-favorable analysis.  Just like you've heard the opposite.   

Based on comments you've made over the years, you seem to think any conservative who has a differing opinion only does so because they are spitting out what they hear from "propaganda". 

Its tiring.

I believe we all can digest information from various sources (almost all of which is biased nowadays, to some degree) and form our own opinion.  

Which degree of evidence is "none", in your assessment?  There's no direct evidence, no physical evidence, no circumstantial evidence, no documentary evidence, no forensic evidence or character evidence which demonstrates that Joe Biden is corrupt or engaged in law breaking.  There are lots of claims and much speculation driven by media of questionable integrity and credibility.  

As I've repeatedly stated, I seem to want evidence of law breaking or impeachable offenses.  That's it, just some evidence.  

Based upon the comments, it's clear that a good number of the differing opinions of "conservatives" shared in these threads are influenced by lies and propaganda.  It is tiring to hear, read and debunk some of the same right wing nonsense over and over again.  

Of course we all consume media and develop opinions.  Clearly, some opinions are based in misinformation, half-truths or fabrications.  

Beerman said:

Im assuming you believe Trump knowingly and dishonestly inflated the value of his properties rather than the values he used is what he truly thought they are worth.

I'm sure you must have some proof that he knowingly defrauded....um, unclear whom.

Yes. I believe that the NY AG proved that portion of the case.  Do you not believe that judicial finding is correct or just? I think Trump is fund raising for his legal appeal.  

Sure, there's proof of Trump's valuation scheme, that's why the court already decided against Trump in this matter. Should I assume that you believe that Trump is a victim of a conspiracy to persecute him in NY?

I do wonder though, why you can't produce any proof of any Biden wrong doing or law breaking In this Biden thread? Do you have a different standard of proof for Trump as compared to Biden?