Hey, y'all! I am compiling stories from folks who have broken predatory new graduate contracts, and have faced financial and career consequences as a result (I'm looking at you, HCA). The hospitals have held all the power in these dealings, and it's time we receive justice. Many of us have struggled and worked hard to provide excellent care for our patients under dire staffing and resources, only to receive backlash when we decide it's time to leave these unsafe conditions. I want to help tell our stories and prevent this disgusting practice to end. Here is my story:
I recently left a position at an HCA facility before my new grad contract was up (I had completed 3/4 of the two years), and I now owe them thousands of dollars. The unit I worked on was chronically understaffed, overworked, and underpaid. I continued to work hard and try to boost morale despite the daily strife. I volunteered to work in the COVID units back in April 2020 when little was known about the disease, and how to protect ourselves from it. Then my home unit was also turned into a PCU COVID unit, where I spent many of my shifts until I left in December 2020. My mental health had been deteriorating as a result of the stress and exhaustion. I had many conversations with my manager about the unacceptable conditions, and how it was affecting my mental health. No attempts were made to remedy the unit's situation. I told my manager I was accepting another position to take better care of myself. I am now being harassed by their collections agency, Benefit Recovery Group, to pay up the money I owe for the "Residency Program," (aka a three month orientation similar to what an experienced nurse would receive if they were changing unit specialties).
I don't believe I should be penalized for leaving unsafe working conditions after I had made multiple reports. I also cited my health as a reason for leaving, and it's only ironic that a hospital would come after an employee for prioritizing their health. Attempts at contacting HR and my previous manager have been futile. I am now frustrated, angry, and hungry for justice for myself and others who have been wronged by hospitals.
Please message me if you want to share your story. I will respect your need for anonymity if that is what your wish. Thank you for your time.
Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
Just now, JKL33 said:
As above, these often don't even involve any bonus.
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This is an easily-avoided situation for employers: Just hire experienced people who don't need so much training. But then it isn't hard to understand why employers would seek out new grads who are so extremely expensive to train.
AH but experienced staff command more pay. Therein lies the desire to pick up new grads.
AH but experienced staff command more pay. Therein lies the desire to pick up new grads.
And new grads aren't saavy enough or experienced enough to see where the employer's faults lie. And they're prob too naïve to know how to say anything for fear of repercussion.
AH but experienced staff command more pay. Therein lies the desire to pick up new grads.
There's more than one reason they do it. But my point is that they are very loud and whiny about justifying their contracts by pointing out how expensive it is to hire new grads.
Just like the new grad doesn't have to agree to a contract if they don't like it (and maybe not have that job), employers don't have to hire new grads if is such a huge burden to them. Maybe they won't be able to afford the employees they want, but oh well. Goose/Gander.
Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
Just now, JKL33 said:
There's more than one reason they do it. But my point is that they are very loud and whiny about justifying their contracts by pointing out how expensive it is to hire new grads.
Just like the new grad doesn't have to agree to a contract if they don't like it (and maybe not have that job), employers don't have to hire new grads if is such a huge burden to them. Maybe they won't be able to afford the employees they want, but oh well. Goose/Gander.
More like they don't want to take care of the PROVEN employees they have. This whole thing stinks to me.
Any place that has to have you sign some kind of contract to stay a set amount of time is worth investigating thoroughly before agreeing to work there.
Make some connections with nurses who actually work there, maybe. That would help. Ask to shadow if possible or do you senior practicum there. You'll get a good feel for the place that way.
Don’t sign a contract then. You knew that you were committed to two years and if you didn’t complete the two years, you would have to pay it back. That’s what a contract is. That’s not predatory.
I signed a retention contract before covid started. I honored my contract despite many things I disagreed with during covid. Not getting a raise was one.
We all worked under difficult circumstances with covid. We all did the best we could.
New grad contracts are common. It costs a ton of money to train a new grad. The cost is over $100k. I saw a figure a few years ago that stated $129k. An employer wants to at least ensure they will get that money back.
There are many places that don’t require a contract. They won’t come with that nifty sign on bonus though. So now you know better next time to not sign it.
Hi! Your comment, "Don't sign a contract then," is unnecessary and unhelpful to my post. It was clearly meant to be snarky and condescending. Please explore why you felt the need to comment that.
I also wouldn't call them "things I disagreed with," my hospital. I'd call it flagrant dismissal of sexual harassment, unsafe ratios (I just got this dang license, and I'm not risking losing it), and just overall disregard for the safety of their employees. I didn't feel the need to disclose that information at first, but clearly we have different definitions of unacceptable conditions and I felt the need to make that distinction.
New grad contracts are very common. In fact, all of the major hospital systems in my area have these new grad programs with these contracts. When they all have a contract with a penalty for leaving, it is normalized and not questioned. New grads like myself are naive, desperate for a job, and broke. That's why I call these contracts predatory. I knew it was a two year contract, and thought I could stick it out anywhere for two years. I had worked all sorts of terrible jobs with terrible bosses, how bad could it be? But two years of those conditions is unbearable, and I made the responsible decision to leave.
I also want to comment on this number hospitals keep throwing around to maintain that it costs so much money to train a new grad. Sure, I had a preceptor so that costs extra labor money. At the extra $27/hr for my preceptor and I to work one nurse's assignment for twelve weeks of orientation, that's still only roughly $12,000. I also orientated at the same time another nurse transferred from another hospital's medical-surgical unit, and they had a twelve week orientation as well. So it costs the same to train a new grad and an experienced nurse in that regard. I attended monthly 1 hour classes with some rudimentary information on pressure ulcers or strokes in a hospital meeting room. The unit educator checked in with me for about 10 minutes once every couple of weeks. Where are these numbers coming from? I just don't believe it when they toss around that $100,000 number.
I gleaned from your comment that you were hoping to give me a lesson or some advice for the future. I want to return the favor, and give you some general human-to-human conversation advice. First, have empathy for others. I didn't think I would need to say that on a nursing forum. Secondly, you had nothing to offer me in regards to my request for stories. You just chastised me, and belittled my experience. If you have nothing helpful to say, don't say it.
If you feel the need to respond defensively to this, please note: you are a stranger on the internet to me. I'm a stranger to you. What you say will not keep me up at night. I am at peace with my decision to end my contract early. I know I made the responsible decision. Peace be with you. I hope you find whatever you are looking for when trolling these forums.
Just like you don't just stop paying on your mortgage; they will forclose.
And if you don't continue your car pay'ts, they'll repossess the car.
I'm saddened that OP found work conditions so unbearable, but there's a signed contract. That trumps all !!
Hi! I don't agree with my experiences of sexual harassment and unsafe working conditions being belittled to missing payments on a car or house. I didn't just stop showing up for work. I didn't stop providing excellent care. My job performance was never an issue. I had multiple meeting with my manager over a six month span in my attempts to amend these issues. Note: MY attempt. It was a one-sided effort. You wouldn't accept that treatment from anyone (a partner, a friend, a co-worker) in which you repeatedly informed them of a problem that was within their means to address, and they chose to do nothing.
I also signed a contract naively thinking the hospital had a responsibility to create safe working conditions and address sexual harassment. I understand how a contract works, and how they are ultimately upheld. However, it was still wrong what they did.
CreamCheese - I apologize in that I did stretch the analogy re contracts. But my point was meant to reflect that a contract is just that --- a BINDING contract.
Expectations that you BELIEVE to be inherent but not specified, are just that. Nonexistent. It's only what's in the contract that matters.
I agree that people need to go in with open eyes. Have a lawyer read a contract that you are signing if necessary. You are an adult.
It's entirely similar to blaming the credit card company for you going on a spending spree.
Hi! Please keep in mind that these contracts are normalized in nursing now. In most metropolitan areas your only option for a job out of nursing school is a residency program. Many new grads like myself don't realize they need a lawyer (because these contracts are so seemingly "standard"), let alone could afford one. I tried having a lawyer look at my contract after I got into this mess, and they quoted me $750 just to look at it. Not to offer legal advice, not to help me revise it. Just "look" at it. That's a steep price for the young, naive, and broke crowd.
I don't agree with the credit card analogy. Spending past your means is a reckless and irresponsible move. I did all of the things a responsible employee does to address workplace concerns over the course of my position. I arranged meetings with my manager, attended council meetings, I took care of myself as best I could outside of work to bring my best self to work to care for the patients. All of the things I experienced were within my manager's means to address, they just chose not to. You shouldn't accept that treatment, so I didn't. I know my worth as a nurse and a human. I know that I need to prioritize myself. At the end of the day: this is a job. Hospitals love to paint this all up as a "calling" and how we're "heroes," but nursing is how I pay my bills. I just want to work in an environment that is free from sexual harassment and has safe working conditions. That is a reasonable expectation from your employer.
On 4/10/2021 at 9:15 PM, CreamCheeseRangoons said:
Hi! Your comment, "Don't sign a contract then," is unnecessary and unhelpful to my post. It was clearly meant to be snarky and condescending. Please explore why you felt the need to comment that.
I also wouldn't call them "things I disagreed with," my hospital. I'd call it flagrant dismissal of sexual harassment, unsafe ratios (I just got this dang license, and I'm not risking losing it), and just overall disregard for the safety of their employees. I didn't feel the need to disclose that information at first, but clearly we have different definitions of unacceptable conditions and I felt the need to make that distinction.
New grad contracts are very common. In fact, all of the major hospital systems in my area have these new grad programs with these contracts. When they all have a contract with a penalty for leaving, it is normalized and not questioned. New grads like myself are naive, desperate for a job, and broke. That's why I call these contracts predatory. I knew it was a two year contract, and thought I could stick it out anywhere for two years. I had worked all sorts of terrible jobs with terrible bosses, how bad could it be? But two years of those conditions is unbearable, and I made the responsible decision to leave.
I also want to comment on this number hospitals keep throwing around to maintain that it costs so much money to train a new grad. Sure, I had a preceptor so that costs extra labor money. At the extra $27/hr for my preceptor and I to work one nurse's assignment for twelve weeks of orientation, that's still only roughly $12,000. I also orientated at the same time another nurse transferred from another hospital's medical-surgical unit, and they had a twelve week orientation as well. So it costs the same to train a new grad and an experienced nurse in that regard. I attended monthly 1 hour classes with some rudimentary information on pressure ulcers or strokes in a hospital meeting room. The unit educator checked in with me for about 10 minutes once every couple of weeks. Where are these numbers coming from? I just don't believe it when they toss around that $100,000 number.
I gleaned from your comment that you were hoping to give me a lesson or some advice for the future. I want to return the favor, and give you some general human-to-human conversation advice. First, have empathy for others. I didn't think I would need to say that on a nursing forum. Secondly, you had nothing to offer me in regards to my request for stories. You just chastised me, and belittled my experience. If you have nothing helpful to say, don't say it.
If you feel the need to respond defensively to this, please note: you are a stranger on the internet to me. I'm a stranger to you. What you say will not keep me up at night. I am at peace with my decision to end my contract early. I know I made the responsible decision. Peace be with you. I hope you find whatever you are looking for when trolling these forums.
I've heard of a place that has "safe" patient ratios, but it's kind of like in Waterworld when they talk about having heard of a place with dry land. Pretty much everywhere that nurses work have what the evidence shows to be 'unsafe' ratios, it's not the exception to the rule.
The claim of sexual harassments sort of came out of the blue, but if you have a legitimate sexual harassment claim then that's something that should be pursued completely separate of any new-grad contract.
I've heard of a place that has "safe" patient ratios, but it's kind of like in Waterworld when they talk about having heard of a place with dry land. Pretty much everywhere that nurses work have what the evidence shows to be 'unsafe' ratios, it's not the exception to the rule.
The claim of sexual harassments sort of came out of the blue, but if you have a legitimate sexual harassment claim then that's something that should be pursued completely separate of any new-grad contract.
Hey! I agree unsafe ratios are a normalized part of healthcare, but it doesn’t make it acceptable. Please direct your passive aggressive energy towards a worthy cause like addressing unsafe staffing.
We get systemic issues like unsafe staffing, a “nurses eat their young” culture, or racial discrimination because it’s normalized. “This is how it’s always been done, get over it.” That’s unacceptable. You don’t make change that way.
Your profile pic is of a man, which is only fitting that you’re questioning the legitimacy of my experience. I want you to do some self reflection tonight on why you jumped to that conclusion. Ask yourself, “if someone I knew wanted to disclose information regarding sexual harassment/abuse/assault to me, and they saw me immediately jumping to the conclusion that people cry sexual harassment when things aren’t going their way, would they still trust me?”
Ponder on that. Really mill it over. Sleep on it. Wake up feeling refreshed and ready to tackle sexual violence (and unsafe staffing ratios). I want to see a 10-page paper on my desk tomorrow over the nuances of being a woman in an overtly fetishized, female-dominated profession. Really explore the themes of capitalism and classism. Remember 30% of your class grade rides on this paper, not to mention you having to earn the trust back of every woman in your life. Please do not turn in some crap at 11:59pm. I will know.
Hey! I agree unsafe ratios are a normalized part of healthcare, but it doesn’t make it acceptable. Please direct your passive aggressive energy towards a worthy cause like addressing unsafe staffing.
We get systemic issues like unsafe staffing, a “nurses eat their young” culture, or racial discrimination because it’s normalized. “This is how it’s always been done, get over it.” That’s unacceptable. You don’t make change that way.
Your profile pic is of a man, which is only fitting that you’re questioning the legitimacy of my experience. I want you to do some self reflection tonight on why you jumped to that conclusion. Ask yourself, “if someone I knew wanted to disclose information regarding sexual harassment/abuse/assault to me, and they saw me immediately jumping to the conclusion that people cry sexual harassment when things aren’t going their way, would they still trust me?”
Ponder on that. Really mill it over. Sleep on it. Wake up feeling refreshed and ready to tackle sexual violence (and unsafe staffing ratios). I want to see a 10-page paper on my desk tomorrow over the nuances of being a woman in an overtly fetishized, female-dominated profession. Really explore the themes of capitalism and classism. Remember 30% of your class grade rides on this paper, not to mention you having to earn the trust back of every woman in your life. Please do not turn in some crap at 11:59pm. I will know.
I really did try wait until after 11:59 to "turn in some crap", but I can't stay up that late.
I wasn't minimizing a complaint of sexual harassment/ abuse / assault, quite the opposite.
What I'm saying is that those claims should be your first priority to be heard and addressed, everything else is pretty small potatoes compared to that. Yet you made no mention of this in your original post, you only added it to the list of issues you had with your employer when your original complaints didn't seem to be getting traction, this will only undermine your claims which is unfortunate given that such claims should be taken seriously.
And my profile pic isn't just any man, that's Carl Spackler, assistant groundskeeper at Bushwood Country Club but studying to be head groundskeeper. While Carl's main areas of expertise are in manganese, Cinch bugs, and a newly registered strain of bent grass, he's not completely ignorant of sexual harassment issues in the workplace or issues surrounding staffing ratios.
... Yet you made no mention of this in your original post, you only added it to the list of issues you had with your employer when your original complaints didn't seem to be getting traction, this will only undermine your claims which is unfortunate given that such claims should be taken seriously.
Yeah, I noticed that as well. Sexual harrasment is a huge problem, but throwing it out after the fact to generate support isn't really helpful.
And my profile pic isn't just any man, that's Carl Spackler, assistant groundskeeper at Bushwood Country Club but studying to be head groundskeeper. While Carl's main areas of expertise are in manganese, Cinch bugs, and a newly registered strain of bent grass, he's not completely ignorant of sexual harassment issues in the workplace or issues surrounding staffing ratios.
..and Carl is a virtual font of information on how to achieve ultimate consciousness. Stunning really.
OP signed a contract, OP broke said contact, OP owes money, OP feels they were treated unfairly. This is not a new story, and not restricted to nursing. Someday over coffee I'll tell you the story about me co-signing on a car loan and other sundry loans ($40K worth) for an ex that defaulted on them. I am quite sure I was told what would happen if he didn't make the payments but hey, he wouldn't do that to me. Sorry I digress.
Caveat Emptor. Or, if it looks too good to be true it probably isn't. Set up a payment plan and get on with the rest of your career is probably the best thing you can do at this point.
SmilingBluEyes
20,964 Posts
AH but experienced staff command more pay. Therein lies the desire to pick up new grads.