Hello all. I am a nursing student here in SC and I love this website. It has been very helpful and even though I have never directly participated on here, I have learned a lot from you all. I have decided to finally make a post, but it is not about my studies....
I know someone who works at my child's doctor's office. She refers to herself as "head nurse" there. She claims to have graduated from the school I am attending. She actually went to HS with me, but was a few years older. I noticed she was not pictured in the nursing building for the year she said she graduated as a RN. (Our school displays the pictures of all the RN & LPN graduates in the halls). I asked her about this and she told me she failed out of the RN program early on (I don't think she ever got into the program but can't be for sure), but anyway, she graduated as a surg. tech. This I have verified. She does not refer to herself as a RN and doesn't sign her name that way, but she does give shots, and everything else a nurse would do in pediatrician's office. I have also heard her mention how she's started caths for patients in the office. Does this sound right to any of you? Can surgical techs do that? She told me the Dr. knows she is a ST.
Is this legal? I don't mean to sound...picky, it just seems strange.
RN Cardiac......Thank you for your answer. That seems to be exactly what is going on. I had never seen this before and it made me wonder if it was "normal". Just to let everyone know, I think SAM J said it, but yes my "issue" was that it concerned me, it doesn't make me mad she's doing it, I just want it to be okay that she is doing it. If that makes sense. And I honestly did not know if it was okay. I thought she was a nurse for almost a year (my child is a year old now) and I first came to this office when she was born. And over time with going to school, I realized she didn't really graduate and I asked her about it (nicely...more curious than anything) and her response was somewhere along the lines of..."yeah I failed a semester so decided to do Surg. Tech and I worked in the OR for 2 years before coming here." It only concerned me because there is no other nurse in the office like I said earlier, there's no MA either. The physician and the receptionist and then her.
Also, someone mentioned certified med. assistants, at the urgent care near me, sometimes I am seen by a nurse or sometimes a CMA and she has given me shots so I have no issue with someone being a CMA or MA. Just trying to make that clear if anyone was confused. The last thing I want to do is cause trouble or get someone in trouble if they don't need to be, but she was basically saying she had no "nursing" skills until she started in that office, she said she's never had formal training, and she was talking about how she had to cath. a baby that morning and I was just thinking oh my, is this normal? She's really sweet and I don't think she's intentionally being "illegal", if she even is at all. Like I said, I was just wondering what you all thought.
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
Orange89...you might be surprised at how heated this thread has become - I'll just say that it is one of a handful of topics that take on a life of their own. As personal as it gets sometimes, it is not directed at you, so please don't wander off vowing never to post again.........:-)
Here's a state by state summary for you and anyone else who is interested. Earlier in my career when I worked in a large clinic, everyone but one person was either an RN or an LVN but one former receptionist. At that time it didn't bother me that she was called "nurse". It was verbal shorthand. Now I feel more respect for my profession, and few people would argue that using the title of doctor when you aren't one is pretty serious.
Interesting, thanks for posting--but I wonder who it is who actually metes out the "discipline" in these kinds of situation. In my state it clearly says that posing as a nurse is grounds for discipline, but if the person isn't licensed then the BON has no authority over them anyway...and surely it wouldn't be a criminal complaint so it seems like sort of a toothless threat. I'd imagine if the BON was notified they may send out a letter warning the person but beyond that I can't envision how it would pan out to "make" them stop...
In my PCP's office, they have all MA's. The only nurse they had was a NP who left to work closer to her home. When I go in to see my PCP, he says "the nurse will____". It's annoying, yes, and occasionally, I remind him "I am an nurse, they aren't." It is easier to say nurse than assistant, especially with the high rate of elderly seen in his clinic. I would hope that all advice she gives is ran by the MD first.
Is it wrong? Probably. In many states "nurse" is a protected title. But, OTOH, it may just be easier to address her as such, rather than cause confusion. Do I agree? No. I worked hard for my RN. I'd put in a call to the BON and leave it at that.
Now we are getting somewhere- is it possible the real complaint of OP is that a ST that failed nursing school is performing tasks identified with nurses? And the fact is many people would be aghast at the scope of many MAs, that have had no formal training. The fact is that MA is a strange animal- they can do basically whatever a physician wants them to- with or without formal training, even IV therapy in many states. Even LPNs in most states need additional IV cert courses for that, and in many states they need courses just to draw blood? This is not an easy idea for many nurses to accept, but it just is what it is. That said, why would a physician pay a real nurse, when he can hire somebody 'off the street' to act in the capacity of one, if that's how you want to label it?
Why would a physician pay a real nurse, when he can hire somebody "off the street" to act in the capacity of one..... This pretty much explains why.
In answer to "What's the BoN gonna do, anyway?" the answer is probably make a phone call to that office, ask to speak to the nurse, ask some question that requires a nurse to opine on it, and then send a letter to cease and desist to the physician / practice manager with an explanation. They do it all the time, and it is not a waste of their time. It is part of their legal obligation.
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
Interesting, thanks for posting--but I wonder who it is who actually metes out the "discipline" in these kinds of situation. In my state it clearly says that posing as a nurse is grounds for discipline, but if the person isn't licensed then the BON has no authority over them anyway...and surely it wouldn't be a criminal complaint so it seems like sort of a toothless threat. I'd imagine if the BON was notified they may send out a letter warning the person but beyond that I can't envision how it would pan out to "make" them stop...
I think that as the BON in a state is charged with the regulation of laws enacted by state legislatures it technically would be a criminal complaint, albeit on a small scale.
I checked my state BON website and found the pertinent information under the "enforcement" tab.
I don't think for a minute the vast majority of these incidents means anything more than a convenience for efficiency.
I think we should do what we can to change that culture. In some cases a stern letter from an official arm of the law (the BON) will probably result in a change of attitude.
In Arizona Medical Assistants do not have to be licensed or certified, but there are certification programs available. Also in Arizona it is a Class 6 felony to practice nursing without a license or represent yourself as a nurse without a license.
MAs seemingly have an unlimited scope of practice, because generally, they do. This seems crazy but MAs are very different from nurses, MAs must practice under the direct supervision of a nurse or a LIP where nurses practice under their own license.
Just like how nurses own the procedures and tasks we delegate, so do the MDs own the tasks and procedures they delegate to their MAs.
Why doesn't she just call herself "doctor"? Oh, but THAT would be wrong! She isn't a doctor! She also isn't a NURSE! Wouldn't it be easier to just call her doctor since it is so much harder to say "medical assistant" and it may be confusing to patients?
Some of the replies just make me want to hit my head against the wall. Calling herself (or staff calling her) nurse IS the reason there is confusion in medical offices! (Oh, they will understand what she is if we just call her nurse...) NOT!
orange89
8 Posts
RN Cardiac......Thank you for your answer. That seems to be exactly what is going on. I had never seen this before and it made me wonder if it was "normal". Just to let everyone know, I think SAM J said it, but yes my "issue" was that it concerned me, it doesn't make me mad she's doing it, I just want it to be okay that she is doing it. If that makes sense. And I honestly did not know if it was okay. I thought she was a nurse for almost a year (my child is a year old now) and I first came to this office when she was born. And over time with going to school, I realized she didn't really graduate and I asked her about it (nicely...more curious than anything) and her response was somewhere along the lines of..."yeah I failed a semester so decided to do Surg. Tech and I worked in the OR for 2 years before coming here." It only concerned me because there is no other nurse in the office like I said earlier, there's no MA either. The physician and the receptionist and then her.
Also, someone mentioned certified med. assistants, at the urgent care near me, sometimes I am seen by a nurse or sometimes a CMA and she has given me shots so I have no issue with someone being a CMA or MA. Just trying to make that clear if anyone was confused. The last thing I want to do is cause trouble or get someone in trouble if they don't need to be, but she was basically saying she had no "nursing" skills until she started in that office, she said she's never had formal training, and she was talking about how she had to cath. a baby that morning and I was just thinking oh my, is this normal? She's really sweet and I don't think she's intentionally being "illegal", if she even is at all. Like I said, I was just wondering what you all thought.