Hello all. I am a nursing student here in SC and I love this website. It has been very helpful and even though I have never directly participated on here, I have learned a lot from you all. I have decided to finally make a post, but it is not about my studies....
I know someone who works at my child's doctor's office. She refers to herself as "head nurse" there. She claims to have graduated from the school I am attending. She actually went to HS with me, but was a few years older. I noticed she was not pictured in the nursing building for the year she said she graduated as a RN. (Our school displays the pictures of all the RN & LPN graduates in the halls). I asked her about this and she told me she failed out of the RN program early on (I don't think she ever got into the program but can't be for sure), but anyway, she graduated as a surg. tech. This I have verified. She does not refer to herself as a RN and doesn't sign her name that way, but she does give shots, and everything else a nurse would do in pediatrician's office. I have also heard her mention how she's started caths for patients in the office. Does this sound right to any of you? Can surgical techs do that? She told me the Dr. knows she is a ST.
Is this legal? I don't mean to sound...picky, it just seems strange.
Specializes in Nurse Leader specializing in Labor & Delivery.
It appears so in OP's state, but that also means the receptionist is guilty of referring to the ST as a nurse. Since OP claims ST claims to be an ST, not an RN, and doesn't sign her name as a nurse, and hasn't been described as doing anything incompetently, what is OP to do- file a lawsuit? It appears OP has some other issue with this ST, or even the physician- so why not just find a new office? If she does she'll find out this 'nurse' speak goes on everywhere in private practices.
I don't disagree with anything you said here. I was simply pointing out that people disliking MAs being referred to as nurses has nothing to do with "being PC." By saying that, you're completely minimizing the issue.
It appears so in OP's state, but that also means the receptionist is guilty of referring to the ST as a nurse. Since OP claims ST claims to be an ST, not an RN, and doesn't sign her name as a nurse, and hasn't been described as doing anything incompetently, what is OP to do- file a lawsuit? It appears OP has some other issue with this ST, or even the physician- so why not just find a new office? If she does she'll find out this 'nurse' speak goes on everywhere in private practices.
:: patiently :: No, she doesn't file a lawsuit. She makes a report to the Board of Registration in Nursing, whose job it is (among other things) to protect the public from illegal or unsafe nursing practices. This is an illegal practice, and it is absolutely something the BoN would be interested in knowing about.
And "Sam," if you are a nurse, you should know better. It's not a matter of being "PC," it's not a matter of "just take your kid somewhere else." This "nurse speak" does not go on everywhere else, and there are good reasons to notify the BoN that it is occurring in this office.
And if you aren't a nurse, well, consider yourself a better-educated consumer now as a result of this thread. Whether a "nurse" is really a nurse matters to your safety is up to you, but as registered nurses, we can assure you that public safety matters to us.
Then if that's your concern you should talk to your Peds office. I also work in an office with 2 NP's who are seeing pts and they do not stop to do the skills that the MA's perform so it doesn't matter that we have NP's, now if the office has a regular RN they may do the injections but maybe not just depends on the office and the nurse in that office. T
In my office the pts call the NP's doctor..........it's not my place to correct them but I let the NP's do that. Our NP's don't get worked up when the pts call them that and the docs surely don't get worked up about it. Everyone has earned their titles and their respect ut remember the pts don't give a rats tail about that when they are sick. When we talked about it at work the docs and NP's said that people that get caught up in the title needs to evaluate themselves again, a title don't make you that entity your heart does! And for the record I always correct pts when they call me nurse and let them know we are med assts.
:: patiently :: No, she doesn't file a lawsuit. She makes a report to the Board of Registration in Nursing, whose job it is (among other things) to protect the public from illegal or unsafe nursing practices. This is an illegal practice, and it is absolutely something the BoN would be interested in knowing about.
And "Sam," if you are a nurse, you should know better. It's not a matter of being "PC," it's not a matter of "just take your kid somewhere else." This "nurse speak" does not go on everywhere else, and there are good reasons to notify the BoN that it is occurring in this office.
And if you aren't a nurse, well, consider yourself a better-educated consumer now as a result of this thread. Whether a "nurse" is really a nurse matters to your safety is up to you, but as registered nurses, we can assure you that public safety matters to us.
Nurse for 35 years, and going. The question remains whether OP is either concerned about the 'nurse' word, or more apparently feels the ST is unsafe, jeopardizng patients, by performing tasks the physician has authorized. But since the issue is being pressed- of course, no nurse wants other people to use that term without having earned it, who would blame them? As far as the BON- would you go so far, or go to a different doctor? And really, would the BON take this rather minor slight to task, with all the 'real, fake' nursing licenses they deal with- more so that the ST represents herself as a ST, and on occasion she or other staff may inadvertently use the word 'nurse'? I doubt it. And even if OP did feel the need to call the BON, OP would then need to find a new doctor, anyway. This is a mountain made over a mole hill, unless, again, OP feels there is a risk to patients- if that's true, OP should talk to the doctor, report him, report the ST, and report everyone else in that office.
I think the BON would take this seriously. That's their job.
I doubt the MA or secretary or whatever calling herself a nurse would have the police knocking on her door. But I'm sure some sort of action would be taken.
Im a medical assistant and I give injections in a doctors office and like someone said, it depends on what state it is. Some ppl are grandfathered into the medical assistant position which means they will do injections, draw bood, electrocardiogram, and so forth. Whats your beef with her anyway I was trying to figure it out from reading your post.............
"Grandfathered in"? In what way, and how? There is no licensing board overseeing this, no one to "grandfather in" anyone...to anything.
I can right now, today, point to individuals who were taken in off the street and taught how to take a blood pressure, draw blood, give flu shots and place PPDs (although they are not allowed to read them), do an ECG, everything you name, zero certification required. No "grandfathering in", lol....
While there IS such a thing as a Certified Medical Assistant, you will find that the HUGE majority of the time, people working as MA's have no certification (which is what bothers those who wish it to be required).
I think the BON would take this seriously. That's their job.
I doubt the MA or secretary or whatever calling herself a nurse would have the police knocking on her door. But I'm sure some sort of action would be taken.
What would the complaint charge- that a ST calls herself 'nurse' here or there, without making such a claim official, as by signing her name as a nurse? What if the ST and the receptionist, and even the physician denied such a claim- how would the BON pursue such a thing? In any event, the original claim of OP is that a ST is practicing nursing without a license, when it's clear that even a MA with or without any sort of certificate or license, performs nursing tasks at the direction of the physician? I'll say it again- the intent of OP is either offense at the use of 'nurse', or a claim that said ST is doing things that require a nursing license, which is clearly not the case.
"Grandfathered in"? In what way, and how? There is no licensing board overseeing this, no one to "grandfather in" anyone...to anything.
I can right now, today, point to individuals who were taken in off the street and taught how to take a blood pressure, draw blood, give flu shots and place PPDs (although they are not allowed to read them), do an ECG, everything you name, zero certification required. No "grandfathering in", lol....
While there IS such a thing as a Certified Medical Assistant, you will find that the HUGE majority of the time, people working as MA's have no certification (which is what bothers those who wish it to be required).
Now we are getting somewhere- is it possible the real complaint of OP is that a ST that failed nursing school is performing tasks identified with nurses? And the fact is many people would be aghast at the scope of many MAs, that have had no formal training. The fact is that MA is a strange animal- they can do basically whatever a physician wants them to- with or without formal training, even IV therapy in many states. Even LPNs in most states need additional IV cert courses for that, and in many states they need courses just to draw blood? This is not an easy idea for many nurses to accept, but it just is what it is. That said, why would a physician pay a real nurse, when he can hire somebody 'off the street' to act in the capacity of one, if that's how you want to label it?
That's exactly what I meant by grandfathered in.................taking someone without official training into the office who applied for the MA position and train them, or the Dr. can just train his receptionist to do the work of the MA. This happened more so back before I became a MA but it happened and a lot of older MA's are still working as a result of this. The MA is covered by the physician for the most part and those who have their CMA/RMA are governed by that association. It is not required to have the certification to work as an MA although some places require you to have it to get hired, but not all.
Also, nurses are required to go to school, and pass tests, and maintain licenses- not so for many MAs. So, why would a person in the know spend the money to go to school to be an MA, when a physician might hire them off the street, for the same pay? This is like a lot of states and 'pharmacy tech' schools- some require that education, others are hired off the street, so why spend $10-20,000 for a school that isn't required for whatever occupation, that pays not much more than the minimum wage?
I'm not familiar with the laws of your state, however I worked as an MA before nursing school. I worked for a family practice physician and was trained on the job. I gave injections, took xrays, drew labs, ran hematology and chemistry panels in house, I called in scripts and did initial assessments and vital signs. I worked under the doctor and was allowed to do the things she trained me to do. Looking back on it many years later I was way undereducated for much of what I was doing, however the MD was always in the building and I never did anything without her instruction. Perhaps this is what is going on in your pediatrician's office. Of course I never called myself a nurse. There were times when the other staff would refer to me as Dr Smith's nurse however.
klone, MSN, RN
14,857 Posts
I don't disagree with anything you said here. I was simply pointing out that people disliking MAs being referred to as nurses has nothing to do with "being PC." By saying that, you're completely minimizing the issue.