Potential MN Nurses Strike?

CNL2B · Jun 2, 2010

In my opinion, striking is abandoning patients. I am very proud to be part of a shared governance structure in a magnet hospital with no union representation. I worked for Teamsters when I worked in an industry setting in college; I never want to go back to that. I prefer educated, invested, competent nurses as the administrative voice, not a factory mentality.
Our first (and ethical) obligation is to the patients. Period.
MN is especially playing with fire. Go on strike and the physicians will be all too happy to show how unprofessional nurses are and take back CRNA autonomy and other APN positions.

MN hospitals are going to have to shell out huge sums of money to get nurses to come here on contract to cover their positions. I fail to see how that is abandoning a patient. Anyone is free to walk out on a job at any time. As long as it's not in the middle of a shift, it's not patient abandonment. Actually -- even if it is in the middle of the shift -- it's not patient abandonment if there is someone you report off to that will pick up your patient load.

If you are suggesting that MN unionized nurses are not educated, invested, or competent (either side of the table -- staff OR management) I find that to be pretty horribly generalized and offensive.

I have no idea what you are talking about with your last sentence. All too happy how? How do physicians remove CRNAs/APNs from their roles (especially when the striking nurses are staff RNs, not APNs?) Does that statement have any basis in any sort of reality? :uhoh3:

cabernet · Jun 2, 2010

MSN10 says "In my opinion, striking is abandoning patients. I am very proud to be part of a shared governance structure in a magnet hospital with no union representation. I worked for Teamsters when I worked in an industry setting in college; I never want to go back to that. I prefer educated, invested, competent nurses as the administrative voice, not a factory mentality.

Our first (and ethical) obligation is to the patients. Period.

MN is especially playing with fire. Go on strike and the physicians will be all too happy to show how unprofessional nurses are and take back CRNA autonomy and other APN positions. "

Since your first obligation is to the patient, MSN10, I am assuming you only do charitable volunteer nursing. Right? If not, you are a hypocrite.

It is exactly the "factory mentality" we are fighting against. The whole assembly line approach of hospital care IS the issue. We are not assembling widgets, where more is better, and faster is best. We are caring for individual patients. I really doubt that with a masters you have been at the bedside for long, if at all. Maybe just long enough to decide to be a paper pusher instead. The magnet status you love to flaunt was acquired at the bedside, not in reams of policies. The truth is, every RN I know could fully and safely function at the hospital without ANY management at all. That very autonomy scares you to death. How else to justify the waste of all those trees, and maybe even your job.

msn10 · Jun 2, 2010

Quote from MissBecky

"If you are suggesting that MN unionized nurses are not educated, invested, or competent (either side of the table -- staff OR management) I find that to be pretty horribly generalized and offensive.

I have no idea what you are talking about with your last sentence. All too happy how? How do physicians remove CRNAs/APNs from their roles (especially when the striking nurses are staff RNs, not APNs?) Does that statement have any basis in any sort of reality?"

"Anyone is free to walk out on a job at any time. It is not abandonment of there is someone to pick up your patient load."

Yes they can, but when did nursing become just a job? I believe it is a profession. Taking care of patients is paramount to our practice. It is not a patient load.

Secondly, I never said that MN union nurses were not educated. I am simply stating that their representation needs to understand the ramifications of their actions before proceeding to endanger patients and 20000+ nursing jobs. The study that they quote is just that, one study. There is no meta-analysis, integrated review, or other form of large scale evidence supporting their position statement listed on their website (at least it is not obviously listed.) All they say is that their are "tons of studies." Fine support their findings. Should be a basic nursing step.

They quote a Linda Aiken's study about patient ratios. They need to be careful who they quote, she also suggests in another large scale study that BSN's have better outcomes and are better prepared than ADN nurses.

msn10 · Jun 2, 2010

Since your first obligation is to the patient, MSN10, I am assuming you only do charitable volunteer nursing. Right? If not, you are a hypocrite.
It is exactly the "factory mentality" we are fighting against. The whole assembly line approach of hospital care IS the issue. We are not assembling widgets, where more is better, and faster is best. We are caring for individual patients. I really doubt that with a masters you have been at the bedside for long, if at all. Maybe just long enough to decide to be a paper pusher instead. The magnet status you love to flaunt was acquired at the bedside, not in reams of policies. The truth is, every RN I know could fully and safely function at the hospital without ANY management at all. That very autonomy scares you to death. How else to justify the waste of all those trees, and maybe even your job.

I do a great deal of volunteer work and I am an RN on the floor. The difference between you and I is that I am not assuming things about you and attacking you.

I am very proud of magnet status as we have shared governance, evidenced-based practice, and many other patient-centered care outcomes. I will not be bullied into believing that a non nursing entity like a union does a better job representing me than my fellow nurses. Unions are used to fight against management, shared governance is collaborative work by nurses to represent nursing in a very professional way. So I am not scared of autonomy at all, I thrive on it. I am not worried about losing my job and I do not "push papers" we are hiring quite a few new nurses for our expansion. But unfortunately many nursing jobs in MN seem to be at risk. Attacking me won't get the MN point across, many of my fellow nurses here are sad of what a strike says about nursing to other health care professionals.

casi, ASN, RN · Jun 3, 2010

Our first (and ethical) obligation is to the patients. Period.

Quite honestly much of this strike is about the nurses obligation to their patients. Currently the state of staffing in MN hospitals is rather scary and patients are dying because of this. I've seen ICU patients held on med-surg floors because there aren't ICU beds for them. Med-surg nurses aren't trained or staffed to handle patients on nitro drips or insulin drips. I've seen patients code while waiting for ICU beds.

dosamigos76, RN · Jun 3, 2010

I live in outstate MN and just received an e-mail stating" For those of you who are not aware - the one day nursing strike in the twin cities is set for June 10th.

We are looking for nurses to work June 10th and train June 9th. The pay for the two days will be a minimum or $1700!!!

When we submit you and get approval from the facility, you are guaranteed to get paid in full even if they settle the strike before the 10th. "

I can't consider in good conscience crossing the picket line. The money would be awesome, but the principle is more important.

HM2VikingRN, RN · Jun 5, 2010

The strike has been a topic of discussion at the VA where I work. My manager was telling me about a hospital advertisement that she heard about average pay and she said that the hospitals are full of it. A very good friend of hers has been discussing the proposals that management has been trying to push and no they are not safe proposals.

staffing

1. Floating not just floor to floor but hospital to hospital? It takes moths to figure out the players just within one hospital let alone multiple buildings. (The one nurse that my boss told me about works at Regions in St Paul. Management wants the right to send her to Mercy in Anoka.) The individual lives in Eagan. Thats a 20-30 minute commute to St Paul. Eagan to Anoka is roughly an hour or MORE depending on traffic. In the float scenario that means she will have 2 hours already spent coming to work. At the end of her day she will have put in a 16 hour day with commuting added in to the mix.

Is it really safe for a nurse to come in for a 12 hour shift with 2 hours of commuting on each side of their work time? If she does this 3 days in a row that means she has 48 hours out of of 72 devoted to work activities.

Driving after 14 hours of wakefulness is equivalent to DWI.

Sorry but I want my nurses to feel appreciated, secure and WELL RESTED while performing their jobs.

littleneoRN · Jun 6, 2010

shared governance is collaborative work by nurses to represent nursing in a very professional way.

Funny thing though, is that shared governance and unions serve pretty different functions where I come from. I work in a union facility that also has shared governance. Shared governance makes a place for collaboration and advancement of clinical care, but in the end, those groups only have as much power as the hospital will give. Shared governance sure isn't helping us now, when our hospital wants to make lots of drastic negative changes. It's only our union that is doing anything to prevent the devastating changes that our hospital originally proposed.

lindarn · Jun 6, 2010

I do a great deal of volunteer work and I am an RN on the floor. The difference between you and I is that I am not assuming things about you and attacking you.
I am very proud of magnet status as we have shared governance, evidenced-based practice, and many other patient-centered care outcomes. I will not be bullied into believing that a non nursing entity like a union does a better job representing me than my fellow nurses. Unions are used to fight against management, shared governance is collaborative work by nurses to represent nursing in a very professional way. So I am not scared of autonomy at all, I thrive on it. I am not worried about losing my job and I do not "push papers" we are hiring quite a few new nurses for our expansion. But unfortunately many nursing jobs in MN seem to be at risk. Attacking me won't get the MN point across, many of my fellow nurses here are sad of what a strike says about nursing to other health care professionals.

Other health care professionals receive more respect, appreciation, consideration, than nurses ever will. That is not a fair or even close comparison. When other health care professionals are treated like dirt, forced to work mandatory overtime, lift 300 pound pts without assistance, have patients lives in theri hands, like ER and ICU nurses do, then they can judge if nurses are acting unprofessional for going on strike, to remedy the above situations. JMHO and my NY $0.02.

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN

Spokane,Washington

allnurses Guide · Jun 7, 2010

minnesota nurses push national agenda

john commins, for healthleaders media, may 24, 2010

national nurses united at its founding convention last december vowed to create a unified agenda and push for staffing ratios at every local affiliate. they're making good on that pledge in minnesota, and they are showing themselves to be formidable. pay attention to this fight, because it may soon come to a hospital near you….

http://www.healthleadersmedia.com/content/hr-251427/minnesota-nurses-push-national-agenda

Leyla~ · Jun 7, 2010

The strike has been a topic of discussion at the VA where I work. My manager was telling me about a hospital advertisement that she heard about average pay and she said that the hospitals are full of it. A very good friend of hers has been discussing the proposals that management has been trying to push and no they are not safe proposals.
staffing
1. Floating not just floor to floor but hospital to hospital? It takes moths to figure out the players just within one hospital let alone multiple buildings. (The one nurse that my boss told me about works at Regions in St Paul. Management wants the right to send her to Mercy in Anoka.) The individual lives in Eagan. Thats a 20-30 minute commute to St Paul. Eagan to Anoka is roughly an hour or MORE depending on traffic. In the float scenario that means she will have 2 hours already spent coming to work. At the end of her day she will have put in a 16 hour day with commuting added in to the mix.
Is it really safe for a nurse to come in for a 12 hour shift with 2 hours of commuting on each side of their work time? If she does this 3 days in a row that means she has 48 hours out of of 72 devoted to work activities.
Driving after 14 hours of wakefulness is equivalent to DWI.
Sorry but I want my nurses to feel appreciated, secure and WELL RESTED while performing their jobs.

This is the sort of garbage we keep hearing from people who listen to gossip rather than searching out the truth. For starters, the hospitals NEVER wanted to float nurses from hospital to hospital. It was NEVER in their contract proposals. The idea that they would attempt to do this is so ludicrous I can't believe anyone ever gave this rumor credit. Can you imagine the headache associated with cross-training staff to different hospitals? The scheduling challenges, when scheduling already struggles? And with each hospital under a different contract, even within the same system, how would they handle the challenges regarding what contract applies to the employee working for one hospital under one contract floating to another hospital with a different contract.

To further justify how far blown this rumor has gotten, look at your ridiculous scenario. "A nurse from Regions, floating to Mercy hospital." Um. Sure. Exactly how are they going to float a non-union nurse from Regions to a hospital in an entirely different system, owned and managed by an entirely different entity? Utter non-sense.

What I want to know is, if nurses so strongly desire appropriate ratios, why are they so unwilling to float to another unit within their skill set? Float pool nurses may be more of a jack-of-all-trades than nurses working the same unit, but we don't see the unions demanding the elimination of float pool for patient safety. It's not as though the hospitals are dumb enough to remove everyones floor assignments and make them all float pool with no staff consistency on a unit. I personally don't feel qualified to work a neuro or cardiac specialty floor, but I certainly wouldn't have any trouble with 4 or 5 units within my hospital given my background. I'm happier working my own floor with the staff I'm familiar with, but if it means greater patient safety I'm willing to float to meet patient needs.

I just can't wait until the dust settles and this is all over with. A one-day strike is a joke. It's a toddler throwing a temper tantrum, accomplishing nothing. Public perception of our profession is tanking because everyone can see that the union isn't backing down on their ridiculous financial gain requests. Very few, outside of the brainwashed union mob, believe that this is really about patient safety and not about nurse profits.

littleneoRN · Jun 7, 2010

This is the sort of garbage we keep hearing from people who listen to gossip rather than searching out the truth. For starters, the hospitals NEVER wanted to float nurses from hospital to hospital. It was NEVER in their contract proposals. The idea that they would attempt to do this is so ludicrous I can't believe anyone ever gave this rumor credit. Can you imagine the headache associated with cross-training staff to different hospitals? The scheduling challenges, when scheduling already struggles? And with each hospital under a different contract, even within the same system, how would they handle the challenges regarding what contract applies to the employee working for one hospital under one contract floating to another hospital with a different contract.
To further justify how far blown this rumor has gotten, look at your ridiculous scenario. "A nurse from Regions, floating to Mercy hospital." Um. Sure. Exactly how are they going to float a non-union nurse from Regions to a hospital in an entirely different system, owned and managed by an entirely different entity? Utter non-sense. /quote]
I'm sorry Leyla, but this is false information. My facility wants to float nurses between hospitals in the same system, and specific limitations on what type of units we would float to were only placed within our own facility, not for cross facility floating. This may have not been true for all contracts and systems, but this was true for my system.
However, you're right on tract with the comment about Regions and Mercy. Two totally different companies. Somebody was off base on that one! Now could it have been United and Mercy? Maybe? That's not my system, so I don't know.