Please help me understand/Domestic Violence Question

Katillac, RN · Nov 25, 2005

Bipley, I share a lot of your thoughts. I've never got how some women with all the resources and supports in the world wind up in abusive relationships for years. The feminist in me can't blame the victim, but I also don't like how we make the victim powerless by saying she can't get out either. I won't even stay in a relationship with a man who yells (that comes from my upbringing), so violence has never been an issue for me. As far as I am concerned, I'm better off alone than with a man like that. My aunt's first husband apparently beat her. She hid it pretty well, until he hospitalized her. She wasn't a weak woman without resources, she didn't want to leave him. SHe loved him. I don't know where she got the idea that was love because that was not how she was raised. She only left him because my dad and my brothers made it happen. I sometimes wonder how she would have wound up if they hadn't.

Yours is the kind of thinking that makes many abused women feel too ashamed to get help.

Just a few things off the top of my head: "She wasn't a weak woman without resources, she didn't want to leave him." By this statement you, too imply that staying with an abuser is often a weakness on the abused's part. How in God's name can you read these women's stories and feel that they are weak?

"I don't know where she got the idea that was love because that was not how she was raised." Do you imagine that people's "raising" is the only way they get ideas? Do you see that a person can feel loved and also be abused? Is it so much of a stretch to think that the abuser can both be very loving and in turns also be abusive? Can you possibly see why that could make someone who is with an abuser feel both loved and abused?

"I won't even stay in a relationship with a man who yells (that comes from my upbringing), so violence has never been an issue for me." I hope that thinking helps you feel comfortably safe from abuse. As you might have read in this thread, not all abuse starts with yelling. Mine didn't, and neither did that of many women. Or is it just the frequent flyers at the ED that you "don't get"? It's ludicrous to say that refusing to stay with a man who yells at you prevents abuse.

"I've never got how some women with all the resources and supports in the world wind up in abusive relationships for years." There has been example after example posted here, sometimes at great pain to the poster. If you don't "get it" by now, I think you, too, may not want to.

"The feminist in me can't blame the victim, but I also don't like how we make the victim powerless by saying she can't get out either."

OK, so you are a feminist who can't blame the victims. How noble of you. So what, exactly, other than weakness, in your narrow view makes them stay? Apparently your feminism only gives you a dislike for blaming victims, without helping you "get" that being hurt doesn't make a person weak. If that isn't blaming them, I don't know what is.

And "we" aren't saying that all victims are powerless, either. Some feel that they can not get out. And if they feel that way, they can't. And some feel that it is better to be abused than dead. Do you get that?

Again my thanks to those who have posted to attempt to educate. Fergus51's post was an education of a different sort, though I have heard that kind of narrow and insensitive thinking espoused before. I offer no thanks in that direction. It takes no compassion or strength to stand back and point fingers, wrinkle up your nose and judgementally say, "I don't get it". But I guess it's good to be reminded that the thinking is out there

Nurse Ratched, RN · Nov 25, 2005

The moderating staff will ask one more time to PLEASE refrain from personal attacks. You may disagree with a post or the opinion expressed, but please do not attack the poster individually.

gauge14iv, MSN, APRN, NP · Nov 25, 2005

One poster spoke of being in survival mode.

That is exactly what happens. I couldnt get the money to get out earlier because HE took my paychecks, HE threatened to hurt the kids while I was at work if he'd found out I had taken 10.00 cash when I bought groceries, HE held the bank accounts and credit card and HE checked "our" credit every so often.

The cops came, took him to jail, his dad bailed him out and he WALKED home because I could not find an attorney to help me get a restraining order on the weekend!!! So there we all were - in the house with the abuser again and he had every legal right to be there.

He called me at all hours of the night and day, sat just outside the number of feet he was allowed in his car down the street, cut my phone line in the middle of the night (This was before cell phones were common) but I couldnt prove it was him so they did nothing...

And you know what? HE ENDED UP WITH CUSTODY OF TWO OF THE KIDS DESPITE CRIMINAL CHARGES AND A CONVICTION FOR DOMESTIC VIOLENCE!

Now you tell me - what was I afraid of? Why wouldnt I leave?

gauge14iv, MSN, APRN, NP · Nov 25, 2005

Just wanted to add - the legal system is not set up to protect victims of violence, it is set up to make sure eveything is "fair" and "just".

While I did eventaully get the kids back from him, he had made good on his threat. These guys are master manipulators of not just the abused spouse and children, but the authorities and the courts too.

That doesn't mean don't get out - it means get your ducks in a row and amass the evidence!

SmilingBluEyes · Nov 25, 2005

The monster I spoke of who abused me????

He went on to have twins w/the next one----and I received a call years later from here, begging me to help her fight for sole custody of HER kids; she said she had a reason to believe me might actually win part-time custody. Can you imagine that? Allowing two INNOCENTS to live even part time with a guy who had a record of abusing women????

So whoever said the legal system does the abused a grave injustice is so right.

Ruby Vee, BSN · Nov 25, 2005

in many cases, the justice system appears to be skewed against the victim. two examples:

the aunt of a close friend of mine was in an abusive relationship. the whole family knew it; but it was considered a "private matter." one night, while he was attempting to beat her to death with a baseball bat, she shot him to death with the .357 he'd been threatening her with earlier that evening. she was charged with first degree murder and convincted despite ample evidence of long term abuse, and injuries from the beating she was taking at the time she shot him. the da made speeches about how "we shouldn't allow women to take the law into their own hands," and how "she just should have left him." this lovely woman died in prison -- of untreated pneumonia.

and then there was the police chief of tacoma, washington. this happened a few years ago, so please forgive any inaccuracies in my account.

here was a man who had abused his wife through their entire marriage, checking the milage on her car and forcing her to weigh herself every morning in his presence. weight gains were punished. he would threaten her with his service revolver, and told her that he could get away with whatever he did to her, because the police would believe him, not her. to prove it, he had his deputy police chief, a woman named katherine something-or-other come to his house to intimidate his wife out of pressing charges against him. for a long time, it worked. then one day, the wife got a restraining order against her husband with much difficulty. (the judges tended to side with him.) she was on the way to the grocery store with her two children in the car when he spotted her car and began to follow her. when she pulled into the parking lot of the grocery store, he got out of the car, walked over to hers and shot her to death in front of their two children. he then shot himself.

then, of course, there was a huge brouhaha. "there is no excuse for domestic violence," the politicians would preach, "and there will be zero tolerance for it." "we're investigating," they'd promise. so why didn't they investigate when there was still a chance to save two lives and prevent the two children from being emotionally traumatized? why did they tolerate domestic violence when this woman was trying to tell them her husband was dangerous and she was afraid he would kill her? why wouldn't the judge give her a restraining order the first several times she asked?

because the police chief was "a nice guy." because to take her complaints seriously, they'd have to take his guns away, and that would be depriving him of his livlihood. (in washington state, domestic abusers cannot carry guns, and if you can't carry a gun you can't work as a police officer.)

it appears as if the justice system is more interested in not being "unfair" to a reported abuser and in preserving his rights than in protecting the abused.

ruby

gypsyatheart · Nov 25, 2005

Just wanted to add - the legal system is not set up to protect victims of violence, it is set up to make sure eveything is "fair" and "just".
......
That doesn't mean don't get out - it means get your ducks in a row and amass the evidence!

Exactly! That is also what a lot of people who don't understand DV do not understand. It is easy to say "call the police, call 911..."... Yeah and what happens when it is then 2 or 3am and the abuser is back at your home, breaking in a door or a window to get at you/your children? And you have nowhere to go, and barely, if any money? The shelters are full, you have no one to take you in.... It is just not that easy to say "call the cops...." :crying2:

For any woman out there sufferring DV I am more than happy to speak to you privately and offer whatever I can.....

SmilingBluEyes · Nov 25, 2005

True enough, the law cant' always help. I was stalked for over a year with no legal recourse than to file police report after police report. The guy was clever and too slippery to get caught----

fortunately, those police reports came in handy in his day in court w/the mother of his kids. They were used against him. So in a way, justice did prevail---it only took several years to prevail. Those wheels grind slowly for those of waiting.

maryk650 · Nov 25, 2005

:angryfire :imbar :uhoh21:

It has to so with self-esteem and control. It also has to do with enabling. Their spirit is broken. They are made to believe that they deserve the abuse and the abuse is their fault. Fear of dying sometimes is the reason they stay. embarrassment if friends and family find out. the feeling of being outcast and not having a place to stay, esp. if children are involved. They do not see the grave danger they and their children are in. And if they love someone, the "I'm sorry and I'll never do it again" always works. Yeah. Right.

gauge14iv, MSN, APRN, NP · Nov 25, 2005

There was a man here in Dallas - a successful attorney(?) who lived in the "moneyed" part of town. He subjected his wife and 2 daughters to abuse over the years. The wife filed for divorce and sole custody. The judge gave the father visitation without supervision even though he continued to make threats. He rented a pricey apartment in a popular singles district, picked up his kids for visitation and took them to his loft. He called the mother on the phone and while he had her on the phone he shot and killed both girls - ages 5 and 8 as I recall.

There were PLENTY of opportunities to prevent this - in fact the woman HAD filed for a restraining order to stop the visitation and it had been granted but had not been served. God forbid SHE be allowed to deny him visitation!!!!!!

The politicos talk tough, but they can't do anything without laws with teeth.

gauge14iv, MSN, APRN, NP · Nov 25, 2005

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1037277/posts

ETA: I will say that the comments under the story from readers are somewhat eye opening as to why people DON'T get help if these are the prevailing attitudes. The "blame the victim" mentality is pervasive and common, but it isn't contructive and it does nothing as far as moving away from DV and towards a solution.

warrior woman · Nov 25, 2005

True enough, the law cant' always help. I was stalked for over a year with no legal recourse than to file police report after police report. The guy was clever and too slippery to get caught----
fortunately, those police reports came in handy in his day in court w/the mother of his kids. They were used against him. So in a way, justice did prevail---it only took several years to prevail. Those wheels grind slowly for those of waiting.

So true Deb. Back in the '70's the law couldn't have cared less about DV. It was considered a "private matter". I remember one time when my dad came home, and hit my mom with a closed fist as soon as she opened tthe door for him, splitting her chin WIDE OPEN and spraying blood everywhere. The cops showed up, looked at her, and said NO LIE, "Ya got any proof he did this to you lady?" Here she is standing in the driveway blood all over her, me, and the driveway and their asking for PROOF? Children's testimony didn't count back then, so I couldn't say anything. Then my dad said the ultimate: "Well officer, She beat herslf up." HOW SICK IS THAT? Guess what? The law believed him and left, with the situation even more dangerous than before. My dad has been dead going on 3 years,and the flashbacks and nightmares still come from being a child witness.You nurses that are sharing your stories here are not just survivors, you are true HEROES. Thank you so much. DV is Americas's "Dirty Little Secret" and it MUST END if any of us are to survive. WW.