Patient Refusing Unvaccinated RN

[Delia37]

Just as the tittle implies, we recently had a patient's family refusing a nurse who is not vaccinated. As of now, vaccination at my facility is still voluntary; becoming mandatory after September 1st (we still have several staff on the fence about it). My understanding is that the patient happened to come in as a stroke, with a prior  hx of prostate CA. Not sure what was the context of the conversation, but the patient's wife asked the nurse at the time if she was vaccinated (she was not and answered honestly...she could had refused); prompting the wife to request a different nurse due her fear of exposing her possible immunocompromised husband...the assignment was changed. The feeling of some of my co-workers is that we shouldn't had accommodated the request in support of the staff; however, many feel the wife had the right to advocate for her husband and had a valid concern. This has become a hot topic of conversation in the unit during downtime. 

Have anyone come across to anything similar?? If so, how was it handled?

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

1 hour ago, Robmoo said:

Here is some light reading.  The employer has no right to divulge medical information.

https://www.CDC.gov/phlp/publications/topic/HIPAA.html

 

That has nothing to do with this argument since no one is asking an employer to divulge a medical record to the public.  Obviously, your employer can mandate vaccines since it's been done since vaccines were mandated for hospital workers (decades before Covid).  But one can be jailed for knowingly spreading a disease like syphisis or HIV:  ‘Mr. Marcus’ Jesse Spencer: Top 10 Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com.  If an employer wants to hang a sign up "All employees are vaccinated", they can do that after they fire any holdouts.  The marketplace will determine who gets vaccinated and who won't.  Abbott's and DeSantis's policies are contrary to business interests in their states (cruise lines, for instance) and they've caused unmeasurable health care costs and trauma to their citizens.  I hope the rest of their lives are spent in conferences with lawyers and in courthouses defending their rights to roam free among decent people.

[toomuchbaloney]

1 hour ago, Robmoo said:

Here is some light reading.  The employer has no right to divulge medical information.

https://www.CDC.gov/phlp/publications/topic/HIPAA.html

 

Nonsense

Quote

Public interest and benefit activities—The Privacy Rule permits use and disclosure of protected health information, without an individual’s authorization or permission, for 12 national priority purposes:

Try again. 

[Robmoo, ADN, BSN, RN]

 

Nonsense

15 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Nonsense

Try again. 

Public interest and benefit activities—The Privacy Rule permits use and disclosure of protected health information, without an individual’s authorization or permission, for 12 national priority purposes:

 

The isn't a single instance under "(5) Public Interest and Benefit Activities" that allows disclosure of an employee's health information to a patient or their family.

Try harder.

 

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

1 minute ago, Robmoo said:

 

Nonsense

Public interest and benefit activities—The Privacy Rule permits use and disclosure of protected health information, without an individual’s authorization or permission, for 12 national priority purposes:

 

The isn't a single instance under "(5) Public Interest and Benefit Activities" that allows disclosure of an employee's health information to a patient or their family.

Try harder.

 

I'm confused here.  No one thinks an employer can disclose health information to the public but that is not the case in mandates where the entire place is mandated.  Are you sayting that just because you work at X hospital and they advertise !00% vaccination rate, that the hospital is violating your privacy?

[Robmoo, ADN, BSN, RN]

5 minutes ago, subee said:

I'm confused here.  No one thinks an employer can disclose health information to the public but that is not the case in mandates where the entire place is mandated.  Are you sayting that just because you work at X hospital and they advertise !00% vaccination rate, that the hospital is violating your privacy?

Here is the original post which has been quoted a couple of times out of context:

 

"

The wife was not wrong.  

Vaccination dramatically reduces the odds of infection.  Info coming out of England is that when a vaccinated person catches COVID the case is less severe.  Their viral loads are lower and the amount of virus they shed is lower. 

If the unvaccinated person has taken recommended precautions and uses PPE effectively the odds of infection are already low.  All things being equal, having the vaccinated nurse just puts the odds of avoiding infection a little more in her husband's favor.

If it were my wife I might do the same.

Perhaps hospitals need to review their policies regarding their staff sharing their vaccination status with patients.  Some might say that the patients have a right to know, but do we divulge the staff's HIV status?  How about Hepatitis B,C, and D?

I would encourage everyone who can to get the vaccine.  I just called a 44M to schedule his stress test.  I got a hold of his wife who was barely keeping it together because he is at another area hospital in the ICU on ECMO.  Other than being over-weight he had no comorbidities.  There was the case in the news of an otherwise healthy 27 year old who ended up with a lung transplant due to COVID.  Being young and healthy doesn't mean that COVID won't make one seriously ill and have lasting health consequences.  If I could persuade people not to roll the dice, I would."

[KathyDay]

2 hours ago, Robmoo said:

Here is some light reading.  The employer has no right to divulge medical information.

https://www.CDC.gov/phlp/publications/topic/HIPAA.html

 

That is true, but the employer has a right to mandate vaccines, and in turn patients (in a hospital or other facility) won't have to ask questions about the staff's vaccination status.   It will be a forgone conversation. 

[toomuchbaloney]

1 hour ago, Robmoo said:

 

Nonsense

Public interest and benefit activities—The Privacy Rule permits use and disclosure of protected health information, without an individual’s authorization or permission, for 12 national priority purposes:

 

The isn't a single instance under "(5) Public Interest and Benefit Activities" that allows disclosure of an employee's health information to a patient or their family.

Try harder.

 

You must not understand what you are pushing against. Your rights to privacy are not violated by an employer identifying you as an infectious risk to patient groups in their facility. Your employer has always had the right to identify your status relative to VPD and advise or coordinate care accordingly to protect their patients and business. 

[Robmoo, ADN, BSN, RN]

2 hours ago, Horseshoe said:

What an absolutely ridiculous analogy. 

"Are any of you old enough that your parents sent you to play will a playmate who had chicken pox so that you could catch it and "get it over with?"

What an absolutely ridiculous analogy. "

It isn't an analogy.  It is a joke and an example of gaining immunity "naturally."

Please stay calm.  No one is trying to threaten you.

 

[toomuchbaloney]

3 hours ago, Robmoo said:

I was watching an interview between ZDoggMD and Dr Paul Offit MD and Professor of Vaccinology.  This virus is not going anywhere.  A decision not to get vaccinated is by default a decision to gain immunity "the old fashioned way."  Their exact wording were "the natural way."  However, "the natural way." sounds like a good thing when in this situation it is a roll of the dice.  So I like the old fashioned way. 

Are any of you old enough that your parents sent you to play will a playmate who had chicken pox so that you could catch it and "get it over with?"

I'm old enough that I cared for some of the aftermath of that thinking in our regional PICU. Are you naive enough to believe that covid is like varicella, clinically?

[Robmoo, ADN, BSN, RN]

3 hours ago, emtb2rn said:

Not a great analogy. You are aware that deaths from chicken pox were somewhere around 120 annually in 1994, pre-vaccination, right? Your approach is “we’ve always done it this way”. Not anymore, because, you know, research. Thanks science. 

 

2 hours ago, GrumpyRN said:

Yes, and I'm also old enough to remember how that went with Polio, Smallpox and TB and before that the plague.

That is a stupid analogy as chickenpox is a "minor" disease (I am using minor advisedly) that was much better to catch if you are young but still could cause problems. At the time WE HAD NO CHOICE! Catch these "childhood diseases" in childhood or catch them in adulthood with the increase in severity.

Far better to prevent it (and perhaps eradicate it) by vaccination.

https://www.CDC.gov/chickenpox/about/complications.html

https://www.CDC.gov/measles/symptoms/complications.html

https://www.CDC.gov/rubella/about/complications.html

 

Please stay calm.  No one is trying to threaten you.

The chicken pox thing is not an analogy.  It is a joke and an example of gaining immunity "naturally."

[Robmoo, ADN, BSN, RN]

1 minute ago, toomuchbaloney said:

I'm old enough that I cared for some of the aftermath of that thinking in our regional PICU. Are you naive enough to believe that covid is like varicella, clinically?

Please quit trying to put words in my mouth.  It is getting rather tiresome.  At no time did I say that varicella and COVID are similar.  It is a joke.  I'm beginning to regret that some of the people here have trouble recognizing sarcasm and have no sense of humor.

I'm certain that some Type A is going to quote this and say "so you think that COVID is humorous?"

Peace out girl scouts!

[GrumpyRN, NP]

11 minutes ago, Robmoo said:

At no time did I say that varicella and COVID are similar.

No, but you did say that getting immunity to Varicella and Covid by catching them is a better thing than vaccination. 

I quote; "Their exact wording were "the natural way."  However, "the natural way." sounds like a good thing..." and, "So I like the old fashioned way."