Part-Time NP Programs: Opinions?

Mark Hill BSN · Mar 14, 2014

How would you have any idea what a student needs to be an NP since you aren't an NP, neither are you in an NP school?

scarykarrey · Mar 14, 2014

I'll preface this by saying that I have not been through NP school, so my opinion is based on reading about NP school experiences and discussing these issues with people who are currently enrolled and have already completed graduate programs in nursing.

I think that ruling out people who must complete NP programs on a part-time basis would mean our healthcare system missing out on a lot of really great providers. NP school does not occur in a vacuum (for most, at least), and in many cases, maybe even most cases, people would would make fantastic providers simply cannot put their lives on hold in order to complete 2-4 years of graduate school. One of the schools I'm applying to is nationally-recognized for research and EBP and has exceptionally rigorous graduate programs, including having transitioned all of their NP programs to the DNP level. During my interview, they made it clear that for most of their programs, going full-time is really only recommended for single or childless students who do not need to rely on a job for their costs of living for most of their curriculum, because it is so rigorous. I don't meet those criteria, so should I forgo becoming an NP? I don't think so.

Also keep in mind that most legit NP programs are not going to allow you to take just one course at a time. They have standardized part-time plans of study that include 2-3 courses per semester, depending on the workload of the classes and their co-occurrence with clinical placements. So your supposition that people are going to take Advanced Health Assessment in the first semester and forget how to palpate the thyroid by their first clinical rotation isn't necessarily one that would actually happen in real life.

BostonRN13 · Mar 14, 2014

I just think it seems very hands off. Taking one class a semester is very little work, and it's easy to continue working full-time and doing other things, especially if you're taking that one class online. Also, the 600 clinical hours most programs require is very little even if you're doing two years - stretched out over 2 years that's barely 6 hours per week. Stretched over 4 years that's not even 3 hours a week. THREE hours of clinical per week, while taking one class online, over FOUR years, just doesn't seem like it is rigorous enough to make someone into a good provider. As I've said before, that strikes me as simply slowly purchasing a degree piece by piece. I really don't think concepts could build on one another with such a huge gap between them.
The bottom line is: I am really, really concerned with how the nursing accreditation boards seem more concerned with making sure NP programs fit everyone's lifestyle versus ensuring they are actually preparing competent providers. Part time programs, online for-profit schools with 100% acceptance rates, direct entry programs...the list goes on and on and on. Anyone in the country, regardless of intelligence, regardless of commitment, regardless of whether or not they are even a nurse, can go become an NP today if they wanted to.
WHERE.ARE.THE.STANDARDS!? Why is no one on here the least bit concerned about what is happening. Do the "everyone should get their chance" people not understand the concept of supply and demand?
We have endless posts in the general nursing forum about how the glory days of nursing are over. How sign on bonuses, high salaries, overtime, etc have all gone out the window. New grads post about how happy they are to get a job after 2 years of trying. That is ENTIRELY due to supply outpacing demand. The same thing WILL happen (and is happening already) to the APRN world if we don't DO SOMETHING.

Why do you continue to post this stuff? if YOU want to go to school full-time YOU should. The same as clinical hours---do a million! Many succesful NPs have gone to school part-time because its what works for them. Like myself, I chose to go part-time because I have children and I continued to work part-time through NP school in order to have tuition reimburesement for my grad school- for that reason I was able to finish debt-free. This worked for me. I also have 15 years of nursing experience that I consider a very strong foundation to build upon. I didn't need to stack class upon class upon class because I was seeing disease process in my every day job and practice. There is no one correct answer for adult learning, we do what works..

allnurses Guide · Mar 14, 2014

Why do you continue to post this stuff? if YOU want to go to school full-time YOU should. The same as clinical hours---do a million! Many succesful NPs have gone to school part-time because its what works for them. Like myself, I chose to go part-time because I have children and I continued to work part-time through NP school in order to have tuition reimburesement for my grad school- for that reason I was able to finish debt-free. This worked for me. I also have 15 years of nursing experience that I consider a very strong foundation to build upon. I didn't need to stack class upon class upon class because I was seeing disease process in my every day job and practice. There is no one correct answer for adult learning, we do what works..

Totally agree. The OP is making assumptions about something in which he/she has no experience. Going to school part time is not a reflection on the student's intelligence, desire to work hard, commitment, and ability to succeed. It is an individual choice based on that specific student's wants and needs. I have also seen medical students and PA students take time off from their studies for personal reasons and to pursue other opportunities (i.e. volunteering). Does that make them inferior to their peers who blast right through, often exhausting themselves and not gaining other knowledge and experience that comes from living life? OP-I appreciate your enthusiasm, but you really do lack credibility and come off as being extremely judgmental. Go through NP school, graduate, pass your boards, and start to practice, and then come back with what you've experienced and learned. We'll all be more willing to listen to you once you've walked the walk.

HR1989 · Mar 14, 2014

I think the op is just afraid that these programs pump out nurses with doctoral degrees and they're really not ready (don't have the clinical knowledge ) to practice medicine on their own

She's also afraid that come a few years, people will no longer trust np's because too many of them will be out in the field without proper training, giving EVERY apn a bad name.

allnurses Guide · Mar 14, 2014

I think the op is just afraid that these programs pump out nurses with doctoral degrees and they're really not ready (don't have the clinical knowledge ) to practice medicine on their own
She's also afraid that come a few years, people will no longer trust np's because too many of them will be out in the field without proper training, giving EVERY apn a bad name.

First of all, no NP should come out of any program feeling all ready to practice on their own. You graduate as a novice NP, no matter how many years of RN experience you may have. A new grad NP should know enough to either enter a residency or work in an environment where he/she is mentored and well supported as experienced is gained. Also, please define improper training. Are you saying a part time program does not train NPs properly, just by virtue of being part time?

I understand that none of us wish our profession to be watered down, There does need to be some standardization among schools and sub-par programs need to shape up or close. But disparaging one entire pathway to becoming an NP (part time education) is neither valid nor advisable, especially if you haven't even started your own NP education.

Mark Hill BSN · Mar 14, 2014

The problem is, this OP has a lot to say about most everything. I have yet to see in all of his rantings where he is qualified to comment of even 1/10 of the subjects he claims to know so much about. I feel certain that the necessary credentials to be such an expert on so many subjects is blaringly absent....

Trauma Columnist · Mar 14, 2014

But....there are no studies that prove part time APN students are not successful....

zmansc, ASN, RN · Mar 15, 2014

please show me a program that allows someone to do 3 hrs of clinicals a week. There isn't one, you seem to love to make comments that are absurd, yet act like they are fact. As many have already said, part time programs are not one class, or 3 hrs of clinicals per week, they are designed by faculty to allow students who have different needs than you apparently have to go to school, yet still get an education that allows them to be a productive member of this profession. There are standards that these and all programs meet. You may not like the standards, but to say there are no standards is incorrect.

I don't go to a part time program, but my school does offer one. The one it offers, is actually just two terms longer than the full time program, a mere 6 months. I did considered it, not because I wanted to have more time to play every day, but because I want to make sure I have plenty of time during my program to absorb as much as I can before I start practicing. In the end, I felt I would get the BEST education I could with the program I choose. You should pick the program that will offer you the same, and I do hope when you are in school you find it gives you the knowledge you need for your future career. I don't think constantly slamming other programs, nurse practitioner eduction in general, etc. is going to help you or change the other programs.

A couple of other points:

Nurse surplus. I haven't seen it, at all. I get at least one call a month wanting to offer me a big signing bonus to move to another hospital. New Grads in any profession should have a difficult time finding a job, that's the way it has been for the 30+ years I've been a professional. I've never seen a profession where experience didn't matter. If you expect that not to be the case for new grad nurses, new grad NPs, or new grad anything I think your mistaken.

Over supply. That may or may not be an issue. We don't know. There is currently still a forecast for a need for more NPs than schools can produce. BUT, crying on this board is going to do absolutely zero to change the number of applicants, the programs or the number of graduates, so whining about it is not effective. So, I would suggest instead of hijacking numerous threads to complain about this perceived threat, you should try to identify a solution that will change the reality in a way that will reduce the risk of over supply. That does mean telling people these programs suck and should be shut down, it means having a plan for how the accreditation agency should change how it accredits programs or how the boards should be changed, and actually discussing how you would get their buyin to change things in a meaningful way.

I'm all for discussing facts, and ideas on how to improve the NP role, NP education, and other aspects of the career. but this constant bickering about what is/isn't a good program is actually not beneficial to anyone.

futureeastcoastNP · Mar 15, 2014

please show me a program that allows someone to do 3 hrs of clinicals a week. There isn't one, you seem to love to make comments that are absurd, yet act like they are fact. As many have already said, part time programs are not one class, or 3 hrs of clinicals per week, they are designed by faculty to allow students who have different needs than you apparently have to go to school, yet still get an education that allows them to be a productive member of this profession. There are standards that these and all programs meet. You may not like the standards, but to say there are no standards is incorrect.
I don't go to a part time program, but my school does offer one. The one it offers, is actually just two terms longer than the full time program, a mere 6 months. I did considered it, not because I wanted to have more time to play every day, but because I want to make sure I have plenty of time during my program to absorb as much as I can before I start practicing. In the end, I felt I would get the BEST education I could with the program I choose. You should pick the program that will offer you the same, and I do hope when you are in school you find it gives you the knowledge you need for your future career. I don't think constantly slamming other programs, nurse practitioner eduction in general, etc. is going to help you or change the other programs.
A couple of other points:
Nurse surplus. I haven't seen it, at all. I get at least one call a month wanting to offer me a big signing bonus to move to another hospital. New Grads in any profession should have a difficult time finding a job, that's the way it has been for the 30+ years I've been a professional. I've never seen a profession where experience didn't matter. If you expect that not to be the case for new grad nurses, new grad NPs, or new grad anything I think your mistaken.
Over supply. That may or may not be an issue. We don't know. There is currently still a forecast for a need for more NPs than schools can produce. BUT, crying on this board is going to do absolutely zero to change the number of applicants, the programs or the number of graduates, so whining about it is not effective. So, I would suggest instead of hijacking numerous threads to complain about this perceived threat, you should try to identify a solution that will change the reality in a way that will reduce the risk of over supply. That does mean telling people these programs suck and should be shut down, it means having a plan for how the accreditation agency should change how it accredits programs or how the boards should be changed, and actually discussing how you would get their buyin to change things in a meaningful way.
I'm all for discussing facts, and ideas on how to improve the NP role, NP education, and other aspects of the career. but this constant bickering about what is/isn't a good program is actually not beneficial to anyone.

To clarify - my post was meant to stimulate discussion. I am allowed to post my opinions so that we can have a lively debate. I asked for your opinion on part time programs, not your opinion on me personally. Try to stick to the topic.

Furthermore, I specifically think the part time 1 class per semester (which DOES exist) is the problem. Part time that turns a 2 year program into 2.5 years is not quite the same thing. I'm sure that's just fine. If you disagree, post your reasons why. Let's try to have debate without attacking each other please. I know many on here become extremely defensive, but it's unproductive. Responding why you think part time programs are fine will be a lot more effective. Who knows, might even change my mind, but not if you put me in the defensive mode by attacking me personally. It's quite rude!

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN · Mar 15, 2014

zmansc;7805474
A couple of other points:
Nurse surplus. I haven't seen it, at all. I get at least one call a month wanting to offer me a big signing bonus to move to another hospital. New Grads in any profession should have a difficult time finding a job, that's the way it has been for the 30+ years I've been a professional. I've never seen a profession where experience didn't matter. If you expect that not to be the case for new grad nurses, new grad NPs, or new grad anything I think your mistaken.

There is a nursing surplus right now. When I graduated 35 years ago I had several job offers while I was still in school with sign on bonuses. As little as 7-8 years ago facilities on the East coast were offering FULL loan forgiveness for a 2 year commitment with a sign on bonus as well. California has an almost 47% unemployment of nurses mostly in the new grad market.

It has been well documented...IF one looks that the average job search is 14-18 months at a minimum. Hospitals are in the position of power as work conditions decline, patient loads incline, quality decreases, and salaries drop. Yes...facilitieds need expereinced nurse preferably in the 30-40 age group, with experience in specialties...ER, ICU, CTPACU, NICU, PICU.

I too am fearful that the proliferation of all the NP programs will saturate this area of nursing as well if it goes unchecked....just like the nursing entry has been allowed to grow unchecked citing inflated need numbers based on mandatory staffing ratios that never happened.

History will repeat itself.

Supply and demand. The more supply one has the demand drops...along with the salaries.

BostonRN13 · Mar 15, 2014

To clarify - my post was meant to stimulate discussion. I am allowed to post my opinions so that we can have a lively debate. I asked for your opinion on part time programs not your opinion on me personally. Try to stick to the topic. Furthermore, I specifically think the part time 1 class per semester (which DOES exist) is the problem. Part time that turns a 2 year program into 2.5 years is not quite the same thing. I'm sure that's just fine. If you disagree, post your reasons why. Let's try to have debate without attacking each other please. I know many on here become extremely defensive, but it's unproductive. Responding why you think part time programs are fine will be a lot more effective. Who knows, might even change my mind, but not if you put me in the defensive mode by attacking me personally. It's quite rude! [/quote']
It's great for everyone to have a "lively debate" about NP programs but the problem is that your opinion is continually negative and slamming programs that don't meet YOUR standards. What's not productive is your constant diatribe. I don't know what you're looking for but whining to a online nurses board will get you ZERO. You are getting attacked over and over again because you think one way is superior when you haven't even gone to NP school yourself. It's annoying quite frankly.
BTW-- What program lets you do 3 clinical hours per week??