This has always been one of my favorite topics. EMS vs Nursing. My perception is that Paramedics do outrank LPNs in the medical profession, because they have more education than LPNs in most places for example, Louisiana LPN training programs are 14 months and Paramedic programs are 24-27 months. And Paramedics perform more higher liability emergency medical tasks than I have ever seen an LPN perform. Paramedics also earn a higher salary than LPNs do here. It seems to me like EMTs and LPNs are about on the same level and Paramedics and Associate Degree RNs are about on the same level. It's been said too that EMT-Basics and CNAs are on the same level, but I don't see how that holds true either. EMT-Bs from what I understand perform more complex medical tasks such as using defribilators, appyling splints, dressing wounds, assisting with IVs, administering Oxygen Therapy, Inhalers, epinephrine, nitroglycerin, and assesing patients, where CNAs could never dream of performing these tasks??? Anyone else want to give input on EMS vs Nursing?
. . . Paramedics and Associate Degree RNs are about on the same level. . .
Huh? Is the RN scope of practice different for ADN's than for BSN's?
Frankly, I think that any "ranking" of the hierarchy of the various health care professionals is a foolish exercise. The various jobs are different and have widely varying scopes of practice that often depend on the setting. EMT-P's can start IV's in the field or provide a number of medications based on their judgement and according to standing protocols. They can't do this in a clinical setting however. RN's have a generally wider and more varied scope of practice than do EMT-P's and must make much different judgement calls regarding patient care. Ranking of one against the other is like saying peaches taste better than nectarines, i. e., it is a purely subjective exercise.
Huh? Is the RN scope of practice different for ADN's than for BSN's?
Frankly, I think that any "ranking" of the hierarchy of the various health care professionals is a foolish exercise. The various jobs are different and have widely varying scopes of practice that often depend on the setting. EMT-P's can start IV's in the field or provide a number of medications based on their judgement and according to standing protocols. They can't do this in a clinical setting however. RN's have a generally wider and more varied scope of practice than do EMT-P's and must make much different judgement calls regarding patient care. Ranking of one against the other is like saying peaches taste better than nectarines, i. e., it is a purely subjective exercise.
Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
As we start another "one degree/position/job/rank/education" thread. Remember we can all agree to disagree and that we can all play nice in the sand box.....together.
Each member of the team is valuable to what they bring to the table in caring for the patients. We all have our special talents/education and abilities that make up a valuable, functional team.
So, i gotta tell you...i love this topic! I love it because its irrelevant! I am a 12 years massachusetts Medic, certified at the critical care level, and a 1year RN working towards by BSN. I have worked w many rns and lpns who dont have the knowledge that a clinical paramedic has, despite the higher level of education on the nursing and I have also worked w some ultra smart clinical nurses who arent afraid to think outside the box and apply an educated decision to a task vs doing the bare minimum. I use the "clinical" aspect because there are many medics and rns who just get by on the little understanding they have and dont seek to learn, know, or understand what is really going on w their pts, they just do the job. The levels of acuity are different, the stability of the environment is different, and the number of resources are different. The length of time either spends w their pts is so different, obviously w the medic spending less time w the pt, but since its usually a higher level of acuity, their bedside manner has to be a bit different...and i think medics tend to have a better bedside manner most of the time! Working under a physicians license offers medics more flexibility to make clinical decisions even within our protocols. And a medics skill set right outta school is a much deeper bag o' tricks. Nurses, i do believe, have better all around assessment skills and still have to be the physicians eyes and ears to determine the pts treatment regiment. Also, due to the acuity, most medics dont "look down the road" when considering the pts care and outcome after the pt has been delivered to the facility...which can hamper pt outcome during their hospital stay, but nurses are held back sometime because of having to wait for physician orders which also can affect pt outcome. The biggest difference is that medics are certified while rns are licensed. Licensing equals more pay and, to a lesser degree, more professional respect! We all should really make a great effort to work better together instead of getting into "pissin" contests about who is better or smarter or can do more. Two different jobs with one big similarity...the ones who want to know how to do the job better will continue to seek out education and experience that will benefit them, as well as their pts.
Ok sorry but this is a silly topic. I was an EMT four 4 years. Paramedics vs LPNs? And what exactly does RANK mean??? The comparison is like apples to oranges. Its 2 totally different fields of practice even though both may have the benefits of the patient in mind. I find it disrespectful, especially to LPN's but also to Paramedics. Is it that you are interested in the medical field and comparing pay? benefits? what exactly is being compared?? Can you walk on your fingers? If the body is the medical field one part does not out-rank the other, we all work together.
I am not going to read through all the comments just yet, so excuse me if this has been posted previously.
It should never be an "us vs them" mentality. A Paramedic and a Nurse have very different skills set, focus, and scope of practice. They should never be compared. The only thing that is comparable is that they are both there to advocate for what is for the greater good of the patient.
As far as functioning in a hospital, the Paramedic is operating under rules established by the Board of Nursing. At least in my area, they function under rules established by the Medical Board. Again, different skill set, different focus, different scope of practice, and non-comparable.
Why make it harder to function as a team by saying "We are better because..."? This is an old argument, and one that does nothing except cause rift between Pre-Hospital services and Nursing. Even though you may not see it, it causes a disruption of patient care and does nothing to help those that we are there to help.
Specializes in Emergency, Case Management, Informatics.
Like many posters, I have both an EMS and nursing background. Also, like many posters, I find this topic to be completely pointless.
However, I *have* run into many colleagues that DO NOT see both sides of the ER door and they DO have the us vs. them mindset. I have talked to several Paramedics that believe that they shouldn't hand off a patient to an LPN because "that would be transferring the patient to a lower level of care". :icon_roll I've talked to even more RN's who believe that they are higher ranked than Paramedics because the Paramedic is handing over patient care to them.
This topic is about as productive as saying that the RN is higher ranked than the Respiratory Therapist or Medical Technologist (lab tech), who in most cases have the same amount of education as the ADN RN.
Work together as a team and don't worry about who ranks higher.
My thought on this... is if this is a favorite topic of the OP, what is it that the OP is trying to gain. New insight?
Paramedics do very different things that nurses, any kind of nurses. They are not Higher or lower or what not, they are different.
SO really, what was the point of this thread. Did you expect to see something new, come to a consensus? or was it more because this is a topic known to get peoples panties in a wad?
Specializes in Emergency, Case Management, Informatics.
After reading through some of OP's other posts, it seems that OP is not a troll. OP is simply someone who appears to be very early in their career and puts far too much emphasis on hierarchy.
downsouthlaff: You will save yourself and your coworkers a LOT of headache if you leave your preconceived notions of rank at the door. It's one thing to discuss scope of practice and liability. It's something completely different to try to argue about who is better than whom. We're not in this job to create a high school-style pecking order. We're here to serve the patient's best interests. If you don't learn this on your own, and quickly, someone else is going to teach it to you the hard way.
One is certified the other is licensed that is the difference. One has more work options then the other because of their status. Each has its pluses and misses on what they can and can't do. As others have stated work as a team. When in the field where there is a RN and Paramedic the RN is in charge due to the fact the RN has the license, but this does not mean they are not equal in terms of taking care of the patient.
twinpumpkin
67 Posts
What is a MICN and a PHRN?