Paramedics accused of molesting patients, how to prevent this charge?

Keepstanding, ASN, RN · Dec 12, 2008

sick....sad....shameful :stone

praiser :heartbeat

Anxious Patient · Dec 12, 2008

(the patient) told police that the emt touched her genitals while she was en route to the hospital for emergency treatment of a gastrointestinal condition.
In a recent taped deposition, (the patient) described how a nurse tried to convince her that the emt was probably performing an abdominal exam.

So, emts are trained and have authority to perform pelvic exams in the back of ambulances???

Twenty-eight states do not automatically bar known sex offenders from working as EMTs, the AP found.

Zowie!

EricJRN, MSN, RN · Dec 12, 2008

So, emts are trained and have authority to perform pelvic exams in the back of ambulances???
Zowie!

Definitely not, but a (legitimate) abdominal exam differs from a pelvic. It can include inspecting (looking at), palpating (pressing on), or auscultating (listening with a stethoscope) the abdomen.

prolife · Dec 12, 2008

I saw an article today where many emts's and paramedics across the country were being accused of inappropriate touching and I was just wondering in a profession such as nursing how does one avoid being accused of such things while still doing their job? After all it is a job which requires touching and undressing of people and sometimes emotionall disturbed people.
Here's a link to the article if anyone is curious. In theses cases the accusations may very well have been founded but an intresting topic nonetheless.
http://news.aol.com/health/article/paramedics-accused-of-molesting-patients/275005

At least in the US the penalties are severe for sex offenders:

"This Oregon paramedic is serving a five-year prison sentence after pleading guilty to inappropriately touching female patients in the backs of ambulances."

Sounds like these paramedics in the article were found guilty. As for your concern about false allegations? The truth is nurses are vulnerable to these sorts of allegations and no nurse can make themselves completely immune to a malicious complaint. I know a nurse who I believe was innocent but was found guilty of racism in the Regina Health District. She is a white female nurse in her 40s with many years nursing experience. A native patient tried to ask her out for a date and when she rebuffed his advances he filed a complaint on her. The Saskatchewan Licensing board's discipline committee took the allegation to trial and to her utter horror and inspite of years of good relations with aboriginal co-workers and patients she was found guilty. I remember she told me her legal defense cost her thousands of dollars, the discipline board made her pay thousands more in costs as part of her "punishment" and she had to take a "diversity" program at her own expense. Anyways the moral of the story is a prudent and responsible nurse could go to work one day in a really good mood and due to unfortunate circumstances wind up in a career jeoprodizing situation through no fault of their own by the end of the day..... :crying2:

emtj · Dec 12, 2008

That line with the amount of states aloowing sex offenders to be emt's is scary. Does anyone know what the law is in NY?

purplehazedolphin · Dec 12, 2008

In some ways I found this article shocking and in others not. What is not shocking is the fact that they found some paramedics that were sex offenders. One thing I've learned about working in corrections as well as parenting classes after my divorce is that sex offenders look to earn your trust. If they don't try to spend the year or more to gain your trust, then they seek out positions that imply instant trust. That's why we have such stereotypes out there like the catholic priest or the male teacher.

I find it shocking and disturbing that states allow the highering of known sex offenders. Whos bright idea was that?

As far as protecting oneself from false claims, sometimes you just can't. Being where I work most things are either video taped or audio recorded. Not so much in the clinic area. Whenever a nurse is going to do a procedure with an inmate, depending on what is being done or the need for privacy, we'll either leave the door open, have the door closed but a viewable window, or another employee will be present when complete privacy is needed. I think having someone else present is always a good idea, especially when dealing with the opposite sex.

Allicatz · Dec 13, 2008

scary! Hearing those types of things about health care workers is really discouraging.

He said she said cases (or vice versa) always make me nervous...

how do you even defend yourself?

nurselsteele · Dec 13, 2008

well i know in my city, they have passed a "rule" , that there are 2 medics with a patient at one time........ 1 driving & 2 w/ the patient.... maybe that would cut down on this?

how can a person that is paid to give care , decide to molest the patients that are keeping him in a job... sick sick sick

snuffy19608 · Dec 13, 2008

I wasn't going to "touch" this one- no pun intended. But this smells of the crap we put up with on a daily basis in EMS. People have always thought of us as ambulance drivers, not trained health care providers. Like she said in the article, "somebody I never expected to touch me touched me".

YES, we are going to touch you- if we are doing our jobs correctly we are going to touch you a lot and repeatedly.

If you are in a car accident and I'm worried you might have internal injuries I'm going to put you on a backboard with a C-collar and blocks, strap you to that and the litter, and carry you to the truck. Once we get in there I'm going to cut your clothes- ALL of them. I need to check you from head to toe(s). I'm going to palpate your chest/flanks/back (around and sometimes including your breasts ladies) and listen to your lungs. I'm going to press down on then squeeze your pelvis to check for fractures. I'm going to check for femoral pulses- yes I'm going to stick my hand in your groin. I'm going to palpate your legs- top to bottom. Sometime during all this I'm going to have some of my cohorts help me "logroll" you and check your back/buttocks for injury. And that's just the "personal" areas.

On a medical call, if you're having abdominal pain I'm going to expose and palpate your belly and auscultate for bowel sounds. If your pain is lower I'm still going to look/feel within the limits of my scope of practice. If you're having chest pain I'm going to expose your chest and palpate it first before I stick those cute little electrodes all over you. Including lifting your breast if needed for the 12 lead.

And yes, there's usually 2 people on a truck. But the person driving has a mirror to see what's going on in back- and they're SUPPOSED to check every once in a while. Can they see everything? No, but if I'm noticing that my partner is taking 20 minutes to check a female patients chest or pelvic area and there's no reasonable explanation then we're gonna have a problem.

I've been accused a couple times of assault/inappropriate touching- the one that springs to mind was the 30ish female who showed up at our station and accused me of assault because I had my hand on her chest and hurt her. My director asked if this might have been due to the fact that she tried to kill herself with an OD and I was sternal rubbing the crap out've her to keep her awake until we got her in the truck. :imbar Issue resolved.

Do I think that none of my brethren are capable? The Chester County Pa. case was near my work. It happens unfortunately. And for the record, if the Florida medic really assaulted his patient he should've lost certain parts of his anatomy. But for every on accusation that bears merit there are many others that occur when we try to just do our job and people get upset that the "ambulance driver" touched them.:icon_roll

Batman24 · Dec 13, 2008

I would bar all sex offenders from working in a posititon such as this one. No exceptions.

If they are guilty I want them to go to jail. I also want patients who make false allegations against innocent health care workers to go to jail as well. Both are despicable.

In a medical situation it can be confusing for patients and I'm sure that is intensified in an ambluance/ER situation if you've been in an accident, etc. It might be a minor injury but the paramedics don't know that on the face of it. They need to examine you to be sure.

sissiesmama, ASN, RN · Dec 13, 2008

snuffy -

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! I was so glad to see your response. I know that the article has some truth to it, but it has the potential to start a s------ storm.

I have unfortunately been in the back of an ambulance for a MVA, chest pain, and a 20 ft fall, and I would trust the EMTs that got me to the ER with any of my family members anytime.

I have been a nurse for more than 17 yrs and work in the ER. I have never seen or heard any type of allegation anywhere close to anything like this, thank goodness. I have been thinking about changing careers and starting to EMT school, but hearing things like that, just makes you shudder.

I have seen articles about nurses molesting their patients, and I hate that it can give the profession a bad name. I just hope people remember that there are some of you good guys and girls out there, because the EMT-Ps and their teammates have my total respect.

Anne, RNC