I recently received a published form from the State of Florida showing that ARNPs increased 22% over the past two years. RNs only increased by 7.4% If you are a new grad wondering why you can't find a position here is your answer. Our NP mills have pumped out too many graduates for the demand of society. I don't have the data to back it up but if this is happening in Florida I would assume it is happening around the nation.
I'm licensed in Florida but moved to California years ago because I could see the tsunami of new graduates slowly starting to erode the wages of established NPs. It's now happening here in California and I have been directly affected. I can count at least another dozen of my NP colleagues around the nation who are complaining of wage deflation happening because new grads will accept a position at almost any wage. Starting wages are below those for RNs in some cases.
For those of you thinking of becoming a NP think and long and hard before you commit your money and your time. The job is enjoyable but the return on investment is declining year after the year with the flooding of the markets. Maybe one day the leaders of our nursing schools will open a book on economics and understand the relationship between supply and demand rather than stuff another useless nursing theory down our throats.
Today I was introduced to my new replacement at my FQHC. I work as a locums and get used to holding a place until they can find a fresh faced new grad to take my place. It's part of the job. They easily accepted a job that I had turned down because it would pay half of what I am making now. This is pay for working in a **** hole city close to Stockton California which is already a magnet for the homeless population. Yes boys and girls, there are jobs for those willing to accept pennies on the dollar for what an experienced NP will accept. I see this decrease in wages accelerating as more and more new grads are eager to work for any wage. I'm closer to retirement than most so I'm just hanging on for as long as a I can. The market is saturated, wages are decreasing and the only easy jobs to find are out in the middle of a pasture miles far from civilization. Seriously, I work in a town with more cows than people. I would never advise a RN to become a NP in this over saturated market. You have been warned. Newer NPs may disagree with this assessment but us veterans in the trenches are trying to warn you it may not be worth the $$$ time and effort to become a NP if wages keep decreasing.
Does anyone think the job prospects for ACNP's working inpatient are as concerning as the outpatient FNP jobs are?
I haven't really read or heard of ACNP's having trouble finding jobs or battling low pay. I see a few here or there but usually they seem satisfied. Such as ER NP's... they seem to have it good.
Does anyone think the job prospects for ACNP's working inpatient are as concerning as the outpatient FNP jobs are?
I haven't really read or heard of ACNP's having trouble finding jobs or battling low pay. I see a few here or there but usually they seem satisfied. Such as ER NP's... they seem to have it good.
In the hospital where I work the ACNPs are competing with PAs who for multiple reasons are more highly regarded in this particular system. My guess is regardless of the culture PA vs NP as more and more of both graduate the market will continue to tighten. I have heard PA programs are ramping up like is happening with NPs?
As for ED FNP and PAs are competing for positions there also so the same as above.
Most of my buddies who work in the ER are PAs. I have one friend who has been an ER NP for over 25 years. She stated wages arent going down but they aren't going up either. Her hospital is Mt Sinai in Miami Beach Florida. Her last contract was at $98 an hour but again she has been there a very, very long time. Last we spoke the new grad NPs working inpatient at the hospitals were starting out at $55 an hour.
Specializes in Psychiatric and Mental Health NP (PMHNP).
Today I was introduced to my new replacement at my FQHC. I work as a locums and get used to holding a place until they can find a fresh faced new grad to take my place. It's part of the job. They easily accepted a job that I had turned down because it would pay half of what I am making now. This is pay for working in a **** hole city close to Stockton California which is already a magnet for the homeless population. Yes boys and girls, there are jobs for those willing to accept pennies on the dollar for what an experienced NP will accept. I see this decrease in wages accelerating as more and more new grads are eager to work for any wage. I'm closer to retirement than most so I'm just hanging on for as long as a I can. The market is saturated, wages are decreasing and the only easy jobs to find are out in the middle of a pasture miles far from civilization. Seriously, I work in a town with more cows than people. I would never advise a RN to become a NP in this over saturated market. You have been warned. Newer NPs may disagree with this assessment but us veterans in the trenches are trying to warn you it may not be worth the $$$ time and effort to become a NP if wages keep decreasing.
First, of course you make more money - you are locums! Locus make more money than permanent employees. Evidently, you have no trouble finding work for a good rate.
Personally, I find it offensive that you call your assignment location a **** town because it has more cows than people. Patients in rural areas need good medical care just as much as people in Manhattan, Beverly Hills, or La Jolla. There is also plenty of stuff to do in Stockton, and Stockton is also close to San Francisco, Sacramento, etc. There are lots of locums assignments and also permanent jobs that pay well in Bakersfield, Fresno, Sacramento, Chico, Redding, Eureka, etc., not to mention Oregon and Nevada.
What is amazing to me is that every single list of top 10 to to 20 jobs in the USA includes NP. Furthermore, analyses by NP head hunters indicates a steady increase in compensation. I have yet to see one person here produce some actual evidence (not anecdotal) to the contrary.
Several experienced NPs have posted they make $200K as locums in California. That is very good money by any measure. If you can't get good assignments for good pay, then perhaps the problem lies with you. Given the negativity in your post, you might be projecting that negativity at work and when looking for work.
Offended? I would say that I'm sorry if I offended you but I'm not. Truth is it is a ****** town. The providers I work with and the staff who work at the clinic were the first to ask me "why did I want to come work in this ****** little town". You know what happens when you make ASSumptions.
****** towns have to pay providers more money because quite frankly nobody wants to live there.
To say something is wrong with me is a bit insulting. I choose where I want to work on locums contracts. Every single location has asked me to work there on a perm basis so to ASSume that something is wrong with me is a rookie mistake.
Wages are coming down and quite frankly I don't give a toot if you believe it or not. I have options where I want work because I'm a seasoned provider in dermatology and primary care. That didn't happen overnight. New grads coming into the industry don't have that luxury.
Bottom line is there is an oversupply of new graduates pushing down wages. This is occurring in even the ********* towns or shall I rephrase it for you into less than desirable areas of the country.
If you want to make $ in this business and it is a business incorporate yourself into a S corporation and find a great accountant. Learn to negotiate. Figure out what your gross revenues are. Don't depend on a salaried position at a clinic.
Finally don't ever believe you are not replaceable for a new grad who will work for a lower wage. It's supply side economics. Supply is pushing down wages. After you have 5 to 10 years of experience under your belt come back here and tell me how you feel when that newbie replaced you. We aren't in Sunny Carlsbad California anymore. :)
Wages are coming down and quite frankly I don't give a toot if you believe it or not.
Bottom line is there is an oversupply of new graduates pushing down wages. This is occurring in even the ********* towns or shall I rephrase it for you into less than desirable areas of the country.
Pay attention to this folks it is the truth. The last experienced NP hired in my department is making $40,000 a year less than myself and a colleague who started when I did and $10,000 a year less than the last new grad hired. Sorry I don't have their pay stub to compare to mine so no actual proof. Although I can't think of a reason I'd be motivated to lie about it.
If you want to make $ in this business and it is a business incorporate yourself into a S corporation and find a great accountant. Learn to negotiate. Figure out what your gross revenues are. Don't depend on a salaried position at a clinic.
Make it your business to find out what other NPs are making and don't put yourself in a position where you are desperate for work.
Finally don't ever believe you are not replaceable for a new grad who will work for a lower wage. It's supply side economics. Supply is pushing down wages. After you have 5 to 10 years of experience under your belt come back here and tell me how you feel when that newbie replaced you.
This is the truth and its simple math not even the complicated stuff.
Specializes in Psychiatric and Mental Health NP (PMHNP).
From what I have read, with multiple inputs, some NPs get a significant raise after the cost of their student loan, but many do not.
Even in a low cost of living area, once you ramp up to see the volume, 120k to me is really just poop.
You bring in 350k or more.
Poop. Brown excrement.
I agree with you that $120K is low for an experienced NP. However, I also believe many NPs on this forum have very unrealistic expectations of what an NP should make. In other businesses in which employees bill for their time (law, accounting, consulting), it is typical for an employee to make 50% or less of their actual billing. So, for an NP who bills $350K per year, the top reasonable salary would be $175K.
Specializes in Psychiatric and Mental Health NP (PMHNP).
Offended? I would say that I'm sorry if I offended you but I'm not. Truth is it is a ****** town. The providers I work with and the staff who work at the clinic were the first to ask me "why did I want to come work in this ****** little town". You know what happens when you make ASSumptions.
****** towns have to pay providers more money because quite frankly nobody wants to live there.
To say something is wrong with me is a bit insulting. I choose where I want to work on locums contracts. Every single location has asked me to work there on a perm basis so to ASSume that something is wrong with me is a rookie mistake.
Wages are coming down and quite frankly I don't give a toot if you believe it or not. I have options where I want work because I'm a seasoned provider in dermatology and primary care. That didn't happen overnight. New grads coming into the industry don't have that luxury.
Bottom line is there is an oversupply of new graduates pushing down wages. This is occurring in even the ********* towns or shall I rephrase it for you into less than desirable areas of the country.
If you want to make $ in this business and it is a business incorporate yourself into a S corporation and find a great accountant. Learn to negotiate. Figure out what your gross revenues are. Don't depend on a salaried position at a clinic.
Finally don't ever believe you are not replaceable for a new grad who will work for a lower wage. It's supply side economics. Supply is pushing down wages. After you have 5 to 10 years of experience under your belt come back here and tell me how you feel when that newbie replaced you. We aren't in Sunny Carlsbad California anymore. :)
Have you read your posts? You come across as very negative and bitter. One of the first lessons I learned in my business career is never look down on your clients - it will come through in everything and people will sense it. If you are working with other such negative people, that is very unfortunate. I feel very sorry for the patients who have to live there and be cared for by providers who hate being there. People can sense that. Talk to any experienced business person if you don't believe me.
No organization wants to keep employing locums because they are so expensive. So, yes, as a locums you are vulnerable to being replaced by a permanent hire of any experience level. That is the downside of being a locums. Employers are also not going to provide CME or other benefits to a locums or contractor. In addition, locums and contractors are not eligible for loan repayment programs.
Everyday, I get about 20 job listings and inquiries, primarily from California. So, yes, there are plenty of jobs out there. And it is much harder to find a job as a new grad NP. Almost every employer prefers and specifies at least 1-2 years experience.
Locums primary care NPs have posted here that they can make $200K year in California. I've also been contacted by some agencies and locums who have said I could make about that once I have some more experience. If you don't think $200K year is adequate pay for a primary care NP, then you're smoking something.
A primary care NP can also make more money by specializing.
There are plenty of permanent NP jobs in Alaska with benefits, loan repayment, etc that will pay an experienced FNP $200K and even provide cheap or subsidized housing.
Also, San Diego County pays NPs less than rural areas because there are so many people who want to live and work there. That's supply and demand.
Finally, just because you think you are in a **** town, doesn't make it gospel truth. That is just your opinion. Believe it or not, there are plenty of people who are okay with living in a rural area. If we didn't have these rural towns, we wouldn't have food in this country. The San Joaquin Valley is one of the major food-producing regions in this country, along with the Midwest. The people who live and work in those areas deserve good medical care, too, and don't deserve to have their homes regarded in such a manner.
If you are a locums and unhappy, then get another assignment!
GoodKick01
33 Posts
Until 3 years ago there were 2 or 3 offers right after NP schools, and there is none for many new grads. Very competitive market in TX.