OT: and not getting paid?

[nynurse2be]

I have 2 friends who are new-ish (1.5 years) RNs. Both say that they usually are not paid OT b/c they need to get a supervisor's permission first, and fill out forms, and in the end it becomes more cumbersome than it is worth. So....they wind up working an extra couple of hours every shift b/c the work has to get done and they don't have the time to go through the chain of command to get OT approved.

I think this is bullocks! The problem is the system, not the nurses. If they insisted on getting paid OT and going through the proper channels then maybe management would enforce a more efficient system. I feel like they should respect their own time and get paid for their hard work. I think it's demeaning to them that if they are paid hourly, they give away a couple of hours every day.

Is this common? How do you handle getting authorized for OT at your job?

[BBFRN, BSN, PhD]

Your employer is not required by law to pay you overtime- per the Dept. of Labor, we as nurses are actually exempt from the OT pay requirement.

"Registered nurses who are paid on an hourly basis should receive overtime pay. However, registered nurses who are registered by the appropriate State examining board generally meet the duties requirements for the learned professional exemption, and if paid on a salary basis of at least $455 per week, may be classified as exempt.

Licensed practical nurses and other similar health care employees, however, generally do not qualify as exempt learned professionals, regardless of work experience and training, because possession of a specialized advanced academic degree is not a standard prerequisite for entry into such occupations, and are entitled to overtime pay."

http://www.dol.gov/esa/regs/compliance/whd/fairpay/fs17n_nurses.htm

[meownsmile, BSN, RN]

Years ago my facility had that "rule" that you had to have any OT authorized by the supervisor. It had to do with the old manual clock time cards that could be punched by someone else for you. With todays pace on an acute floor there is no way a supervisor is going to come around to sign OT authorizations. That would take half of her shift to get everyone signed.

With the new time clock systems there isnt any need. You can key in any "reason" behind a deviation of time and the only one who would have access to your time information is the person wearing the badge. Most people arent willing to turn over a badge that also seconds as their facility ID and "creditcard" for cafeteria/gift shop and access to their clocking histories to another staff.

My thought is this facility may not have come into the 21st century with their time clock system. The above statement about salaries could be true but most rank and file staff nurses are NOT salaried in that they are not promised certain amount of pay regardless of number of hours worked

[gitterbug]

This problem needs to be addressed by every nurse at this facility, I cannot believe your two friends are the only ones who work overtime, sometimes without the OK from the supervisor, but why don't they page the super, advise the super of the situation, have a witness as to the OK or the refusal, and then proceed to work or not work. If overtime on a consistant basis is a problem, then understaffing or time management needs to be addressed with the NM.

If a employee is not on the clock and does suffer an injury, here the facility would fight like HE$$ to prevent a reportable injury, even going to far as to

take legal action against the employee. So this is not a good idea, never clock out until you are done.

[SuesquatchRN, BSN, RN]

Your employer is not required by law to pay you overtime- per the Dept. of Labor, we as nurses are actually exempt from the OT pay requirement.

"Registered nurses who are paid on an hourly basis should receive overtime pay. However, registered nurses who are registered by the appropriate State examining board generally meet the duties requirements for the learned professional exemption, and if paid on a salary basis of at least $455 per week, may be classified as exempt.

Licensed practical nurses and other similar health care employees, however, generally do not qualify as exempt learned professionals, regardless of work experience and training, because possession of a specialized advanced academic degree is not a standard prerequisite for entry into such occupations, and are entitled to overtime pay."

http://www.dol.gov/esa/regs/compliance/whd/fairpay/fs17n_nurses.htm

It's quite clear from that that nurses - rN's and LPN's - who are paid hourly are required to be paid OT.

[Huscarl73]

That's how I read it too, if you accept a salaried position, ie you get paid for 40 if your work 30 or 50, in any type of work you are not eligible for overtime. If your paid hourly and only get paid for 20 hours if worked 20 hours then your eligible for overtime.

The point I'm trying to make is that I don't believe this policy would stand up if put to the test.

[RN4NICU, LPN, LVN]

Your employer is not required by law to pay you overtime- per the Dept. of Labor, we as nurses are actually exempt from the OT pay requirement.

"Registered nurses who are paid on an hourly basis should receive overtime pay. However, registered nurses who are registered by the appropriate State examining board generally meet the duties requirements for the learned professional exemption, and if paid on a salary basis of at least $455 per week, may be classified as exempt.

Licensed practical nurses and other similar health care employees, however, generally do not qualify as exempt learned professionals, regardless of work experience and training, because possession of a specialized advanced academic degree is not a standard prerequisite for entry into such occupations, and are entitled to overtime pay."

http://www.dol.gov/esa/regs/compliance/whd/fairpay/fs17n_nurses.htm

I will agree with the others who have posted that this is not applicable to the OP's situation (or to that of most staff nurses). There are two key phrases here:

(1) Registered nurses who are PAID ON AN HOURLY BASIS should receive overtime pay.

and

(2) ...and IF PAID ON A SALARY BASIS of at least $455 per week, may be classified as exempt.

This clearly states that nurses paid hourly and not salary (most staff nurses are paid hourly - management is usually paid on a salary basis) are not considered exempt and should receive overtime.

[BBFRN, BSN, PhD]

Sorry- let me clarify:

The DOL policy gives a limit of $455/week in wages earned (or up to $23,660 annually) - exempt means exempt from OT protection. I don't know of any RNs making that little. This is not a new policy, though.

My post was in response to those who suggested that it was illegal to require one to jump through hoops to get their OT. I'm not sure it would be illegal, because they are not federally required to pay OT in the first place- even for hourly nurses, because of the duties test limit of $455/week.

[SuesquatchRN, BSN, RN]

My post was in response to those who suggested that it was illegal to require one to jump through hoops to get their OT. I'm not sure it would be illegal, because they are not federally required to pay OT in the first place- even for hourly nurses, because of the duties test limit of $455/week.

Nope. They don't get a pass because of that. One is hired as "exempt" from overtime, meaning they don't get it, or "non-exempt," meaning they do. The facility can not legally waffle on that. If they were using this as an excuse to screw a non-exempt rN from O/T the dep't of labor should be informed.

[oktravelnurse]

Some hospitals do this to discourage OT (in my opinion). I think if you work hard, which I did, many times without a lunch break or any other kind of break, you should be paid for your time. It is only going to get worse with the nursing shortage. I agree with one of these posts. I'd be going to the Labor Board. Many times pts and family members take up so much of a nurses time. Are we supposed to say, "Gee, I'd really like to help you out (the patient or family member) but I have 10 pts tonight and your 6 minutes are up! If staffing is terrible I don't see how you can help but work overtime. I want to be paid for my time when working.

[Imafloat, BSN, RN]

I am non exempt so I qualify for OT.

I am classfied as 80 hours/pay employee but I am only scheduled 72 hours. The other 8 hours are there in case I have to stay over, it is a cushion for my employer so they don't have to pay overtime. I find it to be a win/win, I like the 80 hour benefits without having to work the extra 8 hour shift per pay that friends work at other facilities.

[hollyvk, BSN]

Your employer is not required by law to pay you overtime- per the Dept. of Labor, we as nurses are actually exempt from the OT pay requirement.

"Registered nurses who are paid on an hourly basis should receive overtime pay. However, registered nurses who are registered by the appropriate State examining board generally meet the duties requirements for the learned professional exemption, and if paid on a salary basis of at least $455 per week, may be classified as exempt.

Licensed practical nurses and other similar health care employees, however, generally do not qualify as exempt learned professionals, regardless of work experience and training, because possession of a specialized advanced academic degree is not a standard prerequisite for entry into such occupations, and are entitled to overtime pay."

http://www.dol.gov/esa/regs/compliance/whd/fairpay/fs17n_nurses.htm

There are a couple of issues that need clarification in this discussion.

Yes, RNs who are hourly (not salaried) employees are entitled to OT pay. However, federal law does not mandate that OT pay be "time and a half" or anything other than the same wage the RN gets as non-OT pay.

Employees who "clock out" but continue to work (e.g., finishing up their paperwork/charting) are working in violation of federal wage & hour laws. The employer can be fined for this. While your facility may want you to get your OT approved as a means to discourage unnecessary OT, it will certainly NOT want you to be working "off the clock." (Can you say, "big fat fines to the facility?")

Any NM who accepts or encourages this behavior is not doing his/her facility any favor. It only takes one employee to notify the local federal wage & hour commission representative about the situation to start the ball rolling that will result in sanctions against the facility.

And yes, worker's compensation laws are broadly interpreted to cover anything related to work as being covered, regardless of whether the employee is "clocked in" or "clocked out."

HollyVK, RN, BSN, JD

[BBFRN, BSN, PhD]

There are a couple of issues that need clarification in this discussion.

Yes, RNs who are hourly (not salaried) employees are entitled to OT pay. However, federal law does not mandate that OT pay be "time and a half" or anything other than the same wage the RN gets as non-OT pay

HollyVK, RN, BSN, JD

Thanks- that was what I meant. I doesn't make sense that a facility would try to get out of paying OT pay when they can just change their OT pay policy if they choose. It seems to be more of a technology issue that an updated clock-in system would help to fix.