I've been a critical care nurse for 6 years, I'm employed at a Southern California hospital that mandates all nurses taking care of poor prognosis patients to report them to one organ donation company. If a nurse fails to comply or report it to that "none profit" organization, even if the family does not want to donate organs, we are written up. Essentially, we are forced to call them regardless and this organization sends a nurse to persuade the next of kin in their vulnerable state. I mean within hours of being declared brain dead.
If the deceased did not make their wishes known about organ donation, nurses should not force another third party to come in and try to sales pitch them. I asked one of the family's what they said, and they said all the good things that come from it, i.e. a tragedy. I think the organ donation organization plays on their vulnerability.
I've done research on this particular organ donation company and the CEO makes well above $500,000. I've seen invoices from other hospitals the amount of money that goes into harvesting an organ and clearly have been disenchanted by the thought of donation. Additionally, this organization threw a thank you party for our unit because we had 6 organ "harvesting" in a month.
I feel there are HIPAA violations of reporting something to a third party without the family's knowledge and mandating it by the hospital. Note, we do not get permission from the family to divulging information about the decease.
Is it not possible to grieve after a donation has been completed? I don't understand this "it's predatory to talk to people when they are grieving" argument. You can grieve your loved one at any time. Donating organs doesn't change that process.
I think it's simply a clash of sensitivities. There is perhaps no more emotional a human process than this, and people feel strongly about how it should be handled. I can dig that.
I'm talking about when the family says no, these meetings are held. I'm only speaking of those family's that have already said no and the organization cannot take no for an answer.
I'm not misinformed. That remark is equivalent to me saying your misinformed. Does contribute anything, it's like a child's remark.
I live in a state where it's companies not state that run organ donations.
i have not read the whole web site but it is a Federal Mandate. Your state choose this organization,if you feel they are not acting in your patients' best interest I would contact your state rep.
i have not read the whole web site but it is a Federal Mandate. Your state choose this organization,if you feel they are not acting in your patients' best interest I would contact your state rep.
I've read the policies and my state actually has more than one organ procurement organization. I've never contacted state representatives. Have you? Just curious if it's amounted to anything.
Always thought change needs more people. I've talked to my coworkers and wanted to go online, As I've said before, to see other nurse's experiences regarding the methods of talking to the family. And, their thought about the matter. It seems to me it's certain reps, not the company in whole.
There are definitely issues surrounding organ donation but until those issues are resolved we have to err on the side of saving lives. Perfect is the enemy of good.
Is it not possible to grieve after a donation has been completed? I don't understand this "it's predatory to talk to people when they are grieving" argument. You can grieve your loved one at any time. Donating organs doesn't change that process.
As a hospice nurse, I've had experiences with "predatory" behavior on the part of some mortuaries and some funeral homes. Some prey on the vulnerable state of mind in the grieving families and we as hospice are very careful to make sure this doesn't happen with our families.
Personally, in the death of my father, I experienced that behavior from the local funeral home and I nixed it quickly.
That is the reason, I think, that people are concerned about talking to people who are grieving and it is part of the training as well. To be careful. Not overstep bounds.
Thank you first of all for your service in critical care. It is definitely not for everyone. I can relate to the awkwardness of having to see the patients family go thru "the talk". Especially when you have formed a bond with their loved one. I would as a family member appreciate someone in my time of grief, denial and self conservation, talking with me about the importance and what it entails. It could save some from regret later knowing that they had all the facts and we're able to make an informed decision. There are enough what ifs in this tumultuous world.
I work peripherally in transplant and the thought process is by having a third party come in to ask about organ donation, it takes the onus off the treatment team.
"The first thing is to decouple roles in the emergency department. "The person who tells the family that their loved one is dead should not be the person who approaches them to discuss organ donation," she explained. The same individual cannot ethically conduct these 2 conversations. "Furthermore, decoupling has been shown to increase the rate of successful organ donation," she added.When it comes to slowing things down, Dr. Marcolini explained that there are 2 schools of thought: utilitarianism, which the greatest amount of good for the greatest number of people; and categorical imperative, which is the duty to act with full disclosure. "In other words, we need to tell families what we know and when we know it.""
In IL, if you have indicated on your drivers license you wish to be a donor, the family can NOT rescind it so there is not ethical decision involved:
"When you register, the organ donor registry will carry out your wish to donate your organs and tissues upon your death. "
Yes, but OP was talking about the cases where there was no such pre-designation as with a driver's license. Also, I believe she is questioning the ethic of contacting a "for profit" organization.
Well, patients say outright and not so outright "no" every day re. stopping smoking, eating healthier, doing flu shots, taking their meds as they supposed to, etc. Does it mean we should stop teaching them?
Specializes in Palliative, Onc, Med-Surg, Home Hospice.
I've read the policies and my state actually has more than one organ procurement organization. I've never contacted state representatives. Have you? Just curious if it's amounted to anything.
Always thought change needs more people. I've talked to my coworkers and wanted to go online, As I've said before, to see other nurse's experiences regarding the methods of talking to the family. And, their thought about the matter. It seems to me it's certain reps, not the company in whole.
I have contacted my state rep and let me tell you, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. So, if you do decide to go that route, just keep trying to contact them as long as you are able, so that you can finally get them to listen.
My apologies, when you stated "state's organ team." I thought you meant state's organ team.
You stated I was misinformed, is that questioning my knowledge? If you read my previous post, I said passively questioning my intelligence. Let me give you another example, "But surely you know that if you've been an ICU nurse for six years?â€
I gave an example of these meetings. No, they are not held in some office building, sometimes their held either at bedside or we have a designated room in our unit.
I have not seen an autopsy, I have seen organ donation. Have you? I never said they are not handled respectfully, but, the family wasn't told in detail of what goes on.
I've experienced it, that's why I am here. I wanted to see if other's have or what people feel. Not to be insulted.
I have not been an icu nurse for six years. I did not say that. Yes, I have seen autopsy and procurement. Saying you are misinformed is not questioning your intelligence, it's saying you don't quite understand the process or are misinterpreting what is going on. Not at any point did I say you were stupid or dumb.
Again, another thread, another wow. I don't care if you are for or against donation. That is a personal choice. I have never seen what the OP is claiming. The organ team have much more years of training and experience in approaching families than I do and I'm glad I have nothing to do with it. I'm glad I don't.
I have always seen them treat the families with the utmost respect. Always.
Just as people are free to agree with you OP, people can disagree. And nobody slung any names at you, while you have managed to sling them at others and look unprofessional. You can disagree professionally.
But we should be able to discuss it.
Krzysztof
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