Online RN to BSN Programs

Hellllllo Nurse, BSN, RN · Dec 28, 2003

Originally posted by Sarah Kat
Oh well, then again, CA also elected Reagan, Brown and Schwarzenegger!

:roll

Sheri257 · Dec 28, 2003

Originally posted by Sarah Kat
I think it's sad CA has judged Excelsior so harshly, especially in light of the new ratios going into effect.

It wasn't an issue of judging Excelsior harshly. It was an issue of patient safety and endangerment. You can't just hand out a bunch of RN licenses to people with little or no clinical experience, and put peoples' lives in their hands.

That was the problem with Excelsior. Under their program, Chiropractors or, even Naturopaths, could get RN licenses. The hospitals were complaining, so California put a stop to it (Even though this is still happening in other states).

I think Excelsior can be a great program for people like LVNs who have clinical experience and need flexible hours. (And California still allows that, BTW.) But Excelsior has a serious credibility problem when they allow people like Naturopaths to become RNs. It's total quackery.

Excelsior is no saint. They probably take these people because there's more $$$$ in it. But their credibility is going to suffer as long as they do that.

Sheri257 · Dec 28, 2003

Originally posted by pugluvnrn
There are NO shortcuts if you want to become truly educated.

I am currently in an MSN/PNP program at CSULB with extensive clinical time, and there were plenty of other programs I could have enrolled in that were shorter and easier (although pricier) but I wanted to do it right.

The online grads (RN) that I have worked with so far have been very limited as far as their knowledge and skills, so much so that our hospital is no longer hiring online (only) RN grads.

Yes it is more effort, yes it takes longer...but if you are serious about your career and performance and not just interested in adding initials to your name, then a hands on program is the way to go.

Just my opinon ( and personal experience) of course:)

Terrific post. Very interesting info about your hospital not hiring online (only) RNs.

I have a question: I decided to go ADN because there was much more clinical experience than the BSN program in my area (Not to mention, a higher NCLEX pass rate.)

How do you feel about getting a BSN online after becoming an ADN? Is there much of a clinical addition with a BSN after you've already become an ADN? Especially when some BSN programs have less clinical experience than ADN programs?

My understanding is that some BSN programs (at least in my area) have less clinical because a BSN involves more book learning, which inevitably reduces available time for the clinical component. Hence the reason many schools in my area have launched, or are in the process of launching, ADN-to-BSN online programs.

But, if I'm wrong, and am missing something, I'd love to hear about it.

BBFRN, BSN, PhD · Dec 28, 2003

Originally posted by lizz
It wasn't an issue of judging Excelsior harshly. It was an issue of patient safety and endangerment. You can't just hand out a bunch of RN licenses to people with little or no clinical experience, and put peoples' lives in their hands.

That was the problem with Excelsior. Under their program, Chiropractors or, even Naturopaths, could get RN licenses. The hospitals were complaining, so California put a stop to it (Even though this is still happening in other states).

Firstly, it is my understanding that to enter a Naturopathic Medicine program, one must first have a Bachelor's Degree, so there is already a prerequirement of so many college credits (and a degree) before one can even enter the field. Secondly, the programs do have certain cross-over medical course requirements involved in their programs. Thirdly, Excelsior is not just handing out RN licensure to anybody with little or no clinical experience. Do you think any BON would stand for that? The typical EC student has been described to you over and over again on another thread, so I won't take it there on this one.

Originally posted by lizz
I think Excelsior can be a great program for people like LVNs who have clinical experience and need flexible hours. (And California still allows that, BTW.) But Excelsior has a serious credibility problem when they allow people like Naturopaths to become RNs. It's total quackery.

Excelsior is no saint. They probably take these people because there's more $$$$ in it. But their credibility is going to suffer as long as they do that.

Please educate yourself on other programs (such as Naturopathic Medicine, etc.) before claiming said programs are "total quackery." Anyone who chooses to get an RN education, has extensive learning in another background, and can bring that knowledge into their new role can make a very valuable addition to any healthcare team. Maybe it could be considered more of a broader base of knowledge than quackery. There are many, many patients out there who would be more apt to listen to a nurse who had some knowledge of "folk remedies" than someone who would write them off as quackery. I work in KY, and a good number of my patients are uninsured. You might find that a population in a lower income bracket will subscribe to tried-and-true folk remedies for certain conditions, because it's cheaper and it's part of their culture. Try telling these people it's quackery, and you might have a patient who refuses to listen to anything you have to say, because it'll be your credibility that's shot with them.

As for the "patient endangerment," it amazes me that as an LPN, I am not placing patients in "endangerment," but if I further my education through EC, I am?

And I'm still waiting for EC to "just hand out" my RN license- I actually was studying for my next exam. Now that I know they will just hand it out to me, I guess I don't have to study any more. Wow- I have wasted so much time and effort! Plus, I will have to call my employer and tell them what a great deal they're getting. They're covering my tuition costs, and it's only costing them $4665. They will be happy to know that everone else has to pay $8000.

pixiel · Dec 28, 2003

Yes, I agree somewhat. I am not sure on-line RN programs are the best thing. However, I put in more much more than 800 clincal hours in my hospital based RN program. I also currently work as a RN and have done so for over 3 years. I do not think that I must do tons of clinical while obtaining my RN-BSN. JMHO.

Sheri257 · Dec 28, 2003

lgflamini:

Obviously you and I will never agree on this issue, but I am very surprized that as an LPN, you would approve of naturopaths obtaining RN licenses through Excelsior. You didn't address chiropractors but, I suppose you approve of those as well.

As you mentioned, it pretty much boils down to folk remedies. It may have some placebo effect and some patients may like it, but there is no scientific basis for it whatsoever. That, by definition, is quackery. And just because someone has a bachelor's degree with some science courses, doesn't mean they have the clinical experience to become an RN.

All of this only hurts Excelsior's reputation. As the previous poster mentioned, their hospital does not hire new Excelsior grads because they experienced problems with them. I'm sure this hospital came to the same conclusion that other California hospitals have: There are issues of patient endangerment, and they don't hire new Excelsior grads as a result. Obviously Excelsior's clinical component doesn't provide enough experience for at least some of their graduates, which is why the BORN cracked down on them.

Unfortunately, between the naturopaths, chiropractors, etc. this only hurts people like yourself who may have legitimate clinical experience. My point is that people like yourself might be better served if Excelsior tightened up on the requirements but, unfortunately, they probably won't because of the $$$$.

kimlpn · Dec 29, 2003

I agree with both sides here. I think EC can be a great way for advancement of appropriately suited persons, but can be a poor relflection of the college and grads by allowing people with limited clinical experience in the area of NURSING to be admitted into the RN program. I personally think Florida has it right....only LPN's can sit for boards after going through the program. Much of the poor reflection of EC comes from people with little to no clinical nursing experience getting jobs then not being able to perform basic nursing procedures taught in most LPN schools. Just my opinion--but the college needs to crack down on this before other states follow California's action.

Kim

tlynsmith · Dec 29, 2003

Originally posted by pugluvnrn
Sorry folks, but there is no comparison between university based BSN programs with hands on clinicals versus Online programs.

Online programs are more expensive because it is basically buying a degree. Excelsior college costs about $8000 just for an LVN to RN program and guess what?
The California BRN is no longer recognizing degrees from this college unless the candidate in question completes 360 MORE clinical hours and works as an LVN for 1 year.

There are NO shortcuts if you want to become truly educated.

I am currently in an MSN/PNP program at CSULB with extensive clinical time, and there were plenty of other programs I could have enrolled in that were shorter and easier (although pricier) but I wanted to do it right.

The online grads (RN) that I have worked with so far have been very limited as far as their knowledge and skills, so much so that our hospital is no longer hiring online (only) RN grads.

Yes it is more effort, yes it takes longer...but if you are serious about your career and performance and not just interested in adding initials to your name, then a hands on program is the way to go.

Just my opinon ( and personal experience) of course:)

What do you mean "do it the right way" Its funny to me how others can preach the word. I am one of those LVNs from CA, thank god I was able to be "grandfathered in". I have been a LVNx7 years and head of household, going to school full time is not an option. As far as the thought of going through EC is a short cut and/or just for someone to get a initial behind someones name is BS. I am an experienced LVN that is unable to go to school full-time it does not mean I am interested in taking a easy route. I have classmates that graduated with me that have finished their pre reqs and still can not get into the "traditional program" because they are filled up, the waiting list is closed, lottery or politics. I went to a college to speak to the DON she told me it is no way I can work "you will fail the program" is what she said. Before people past judgement you have to walk the walk to talk the talk. Living in CA you have to work. I have 2 kids 11 and 3, husband that works full time 30miles + from my home and my kids school. I work downtown LA in a corporate office, I make good money but I took this job to be able to drive down the street to my local college to do my pre reqs and EC at home. There probably has been cases where a EC graduate demonstrated lack of clinical knowledge but all new grads do. I have a friend who is a RN now who told me she never had an opportunity in school to pass meds, dc a heplock, empty catheters, etc... come on people it is the indiviual and what they can learn and retain. I agree that the BON should of investigated but the complaints I am sure of were not because of LVN to RN employee. This is my opinion, not my experience but a reality check. Thank you for your time :)

Teresa

tlynsmith · Dec 29, 2003

Originally posted by Sarah Kat
I think it's sad CA has judged Excelsior so harshly, especially in light of the new ratios going into effect. Oh well, then again, CA also elected Reagan, Brown and Schwarzenegger! [/b]

LOL.... I was not one of those Californians LOL :roll

It is sad ...very sad. I have sat down many times with my hubby to discuss me quitting my job.. it just not an option. I make as much as a new grad RN makes in CA. Its no way I can go back to school "the right way" LOL. You would think the traditional schools would have programs that were for the working adults.. evening rotations, weekend clinicals, etc. I guess I will be one of the ones that will have to call in a favor to my RN friends for a job:chuckle

Teresa

Sheri257 · Dec 29, 2003

Teresa:

I'm curious about something. Why would you need to be grandfathered in? At a glance, it looks like you might potentially meet the new requirements since you're an LVN.

http://www.rn.ca.gov/news/news.htm

Or, is this the problem?

Must have 8 units or 360 hours of supervised clinical experience through a California approved program. The clinical areas required are to be in advanced medical surgical nursing, psychiatric nursing and geriatrics.

The practicums may be provided through the Open University option throughout California State University System, California Community College System or through Independent College System.

Would your clinical experience need to be documented through a California university? I'm just wondering, since they use the word "may" there, possibly indicating other options. Or, do you not have clinical experience in all of the above mentioned areas?

Just curious about how these new rules would work, or not, for someone like yourself.

tlynsmith · Dec 29, 2003

I was one of the ones that met the Sept. 03 deadline. When I called the BON they used the words "grandfathered in". I was also told I will have an unrestricted license . I have friends that took the 30 option unit RN program they are only licensed in CA. What bothers me is that it should not be this hard LOL. My sister is a "non degree RN" When she was coming up it was not required. As nurses started to be part of the team or should I say play a more demanding role in the hospitals becoming managers/ administators, etc it became manditory to be a degree nurse to compete and be able to offer more to the team. I can say this I will be taking my pre reqs at my local college and my nursing concepts through EC so I will not have any issues when I go for my BSN :chuckle. FYI more states will follow CA decision probably not next year probaly not 2-3 yrs from now but soon.

Good Luck Everyone !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Teresa

Trauma Columnist · Dec 29, 2003

Maybe I didn't understand the original poster, but I'm currently in a combined BSN/MSN program through University of Phoenix totally online. I have 12 years of RN nursing experience, 9 in critical care. I certainly don't feel I need more clinical - the clinical in my program is fine. However, if we are discussing new non-nurses doing an online RN program - of course clinical time is needed. At any rate...I have been with University of Phoenix since Nov 02 and love it - will have the BSN part done in May 04 and the MSN in Dec 05.