Online RN to BSN Programs

tlynsmith · Dec 29, 2003

Originally posted by lizz
Teresa:

I'm curious about something. Why would you need to be grandfathered in? At a glance, it looks like you might potentially meet the new requirements since you're an LVN.

http://www.rn.ca.gov/news/news.htm

Or, is this the problem?

Must have 8 units or 360 hours of supervised clinical experience through a California approved program. The clinical areas required are to be in advanced medical surgical nursing, psychiatric nursing and geriatrics.

The practicums may be provided through the Open University option throughout California State University System, California Community College System or through Independent College System.

Would your clinical experience need to be documented through a California university? I'm just wondering, since they use the word "may" there, possibly indicating other options. Or, do you not have clinical experience in all of the above mentioned areas?

Just curious about how these new rules would work, or not, for someone like yourself.

When I enrolled in EC it was not automatic like it was previously. I had to send my sealed transcipt ,a resume (which reads I have a remarkable work history and clinical experience) and lastly a copy of my current license. I graduated fgrom an accrediated VN Program when I was 20. As far as the clinical hours we had more then 360hrs supervised in my VN program. I was in the clear but at the time the decision was in the works it was talks of no EC in CA period for LVNS and whoever LOL. I know alot of CA professionals that were going through EC, now that it is for LVNs only which I think was a cool decision, it will be lost to the publishing companies. :chuckle

Teresa

tlynsmith · Dec 29, 2003

Originally posted by traumaRUs
Maybe I didn't understand the original poster, but I'm currently in a combined BSN/MSN program through University of Phoenix totally online. I have 12 years of RN nursing experience, 9 in critical care. I certainly don't feel I need more clinical - the clinical in my program is fine. However, if we are discussing new non-nurses doing an online RN program - of course clinical time is needed. At any rate...I have been with University of Phoenix since Nov 02 and love it - will have the BSN part done in May 04 and the MSN in Dec 05.

Congrats! My co-worker and sister are pursuing their degrees at Univerisity of Phoenix. I have heard only good things about this school. They have a campus not too far from my home. Again congrats!

Teresa

kimlpn · Dec 29, 2003

To set some info straight the deadline for new guidlines to accept Excelsior students was December 5, 2003. Although California has imposed new regulations such as clinical time and status of an LVN, Excelsior college themselves is no longer accepting applications from California students. I personally called them toll free at 1-888-647-2388 and spoke with the admissions counsler named Heather. Heather informed me that because the California ruling was so harsh they will not even accept applications from CA residents as well as not encourage them to take any of the tests or practice exams offered. You can find this info on EC web site at http://www.Excelsior.edu go to the nursing page and click on the CA residents update. To get the info on the Dec 5 deadline refer to http://www.rn.ca.gov/news/news.htm So essentially if you can't enroll in the program if you live in California the impositions of the board don't even matter. This is a little harsh...I think there are many qualified LPN's that can benefit from this route, but there are also many unqualified people who should not earn there RN this way. Unfortunately by allowing people with extremely limited nursing clinical experience EC has allowed some of this to happen to them. They need to crack down on who they allow into the program.

Kim

Sheri257 · Dec 29, 2003

Originally posted by kimlpn
To set some info straight the deadline for new guidlines to accept Excelsior students was December 5, 2003. Although California has imposed new regulations such as clinical time and status of an LVN, Excelsior college themselves is no longer accepting applications from California students. I personally called them toll free at 1-888-647-2388 and spoke with the admissions counsler named Heather. Heather informed me that because the California ruling was so harsh they will not even accept applications from CA residents as well as not encourage them to take any of the tests or practice exams offered.

Fascinating info Kim. I wonder why Excelsior decided to give up on it all together. Was it, perhaps, because of the above mentioned clinical requirements, or something else?

tlynsmith · Dec 29, 2003

Originally posted by kimlpn
To set some info straight the deadline for new guidlines to accept Excelsior students was December 5, 2003. Although California has imposed new regulations such as clinical time and status of an LVN, Excelsior college themselves is no longer accepting applications from California students. I personally called them toll free at 1-888-647-2388 and spoke with the admissions counsler named Heather. Heather informed me that because the California ruling was so harsh they will not even accept applications from CA residents as well as not encourage them to take any of the tests or practice exams offered. You can find this info on EC web site at http://www.Excelsior.edu go to the nursing page and click on the CA residents update. To get the info on the Dec 5 deadline refer to http://www.rn.ca.gov/news/news.htm So essentially if you can't enroll in the program if you live in California the impositions of the board don't even matter. This is a little harsh...I think there are many qualified LPN's that can benefit from this route, but there are also many unqualified people who should not earn there RN this way. Unfortunately by allowing people with extremely limited nursing clinical experience EC has allowed some of this to happen to them. They need to crack down on who they allow into the program.
Kim

Thank you for pointing this out. I have a friend that has 16 years experience as a LVN. I told her at the time about the BON making their decision. She called the BON they said if she was enrolled in EC by 12/5 she would be grandfathered in but when she tried to submit her application based on the decision as long as you were a LVN with 1 yr experience blah blah she would be fine well EC declined her application because of the reasons you stated here. I guess EC feels one state will not hurt them but other states in my opinion will follow. This is so sad!!!!!!!!!

Teresa

kimlpn · Dec 29, 2003

Lizz,

I was told by EC that the reason for no longer accepting apps from California residents was indeed the clinical hours. They said there was no way their students would be able to do the clinical hours through the deemed schools/facilities required by the board. EC said that Ca wanted them to meet all the criteria that a traditional college and they just aren't set up for that. They do have a philosophy more geared for non traditional students and I think it's great--but it should really be limited to only those who are truly qualified for this program...hence they may not be having this prob if it was cracked down on. I believe Florida seems fair, they allow EC grads if you are an LPN.

Kim

Sheri257 · Dec 29, 2003

Wow, thanks for the info Kim.

It's too bad they didn't address these issues sooner.

My guess is that it was like any other short sighted business decision. They probably were making too much $$$ from the less qualified students.

Of course, they may also lose a ton of money if they can't take anyone from California.

I guess we'll see if the other states follow suit. Someone did post a thread saying the Oregon BON was unhappy with them. But I haven't seen anything official on that.

Erin RN · Dec 29, 2003

Originally posted by pugluvnrn
Sorry folks, but there is no comparison between university based BSN programs with hands on clinicals versus Online programs.

Online programs are more expensive because it is basically buying a degree. Excelsior college costs about $8000 just for an LVN to RN program and guess what?
The California BRN is no longer recognizing degrees from this college unless the candidate in question completes 360 MORE clinical hours and works as an LVN for 1 year.

There are NO shortcuts if you want to become truly educated.

I am currently in an MSN/PNP program at CSULB with extensive clinical time, and there were plenty of other programs I could have enrolled in that were shorter and easier (although pricier) but I wanted to do it right.

The online grads (RN) that I have worked with so far have been very limited as far as their knowledge and skills, so much so that our hospital is no longer hiring online (only) RN grads.

Yes it is more effort, yes it takes longer...but if you are serious about your career and performance and not just interested in adding initials to your name, then a hands on program is the way to go.

Just my opinon ( and personal experience) of course:)

The OP was aking about RN to BSN programs though. I don't have my BSN but if I ever decided it was something I wished to pursue after 13 yrs of being an RN, in mostly critical care..why in the world would I want (or need) to go through clinicals?? For community health? Did it..3 yrs home IV infusion, 2 yrs disease management with public assistance. I do not see how clinicals would benefit me at all..also I have always wondered this..IF I decided to go through a traditional BSN program which I guess I would "join in" half way through..whose license would I be practicing on during clinicals?? I remember my instructors basically taking resonsibility for me as a student..now that I have the same license as the instructor do I practice (as a stundent) under hers or under my own...this is part of why I think it is so crazy. The instructor is an RN, I am RN and I am back in school to be an RN..hmmmmm??? What would make sense is if the Universities had an evening BSN ..classes only type curriculum.... Erin

Sarah Kat · Dec 29, 2003

FYI - Chiropractors have graduate degrees (D.C.) and are doctors. And while nursing is still not technically considered to be a profession, chiropractic is.

Originally posted by lizz
Unfortunately, between the naturopaths, chiropractors, etc. this only hurts people like yourself who may have legitimate clinical experience. My point is that people like yourself might be better served if Excelsior tightened up on the requirements but, unfortunately, they probably won't because of the $$$$.

Sarah Kat · Dec 29, 2003

Originally posted by lizz
It wasn't an issue of judging Excelsior harshly. It was an issue of patient safety and endangerment. You can't just hand out a bunch of RN licenses to people with little or no clinical experience, and put peoples' lives in their hands.

Oh yeah, and just because someone completes a degree in nursing, it doesn't mean they will be licensed. They still have to sit for the NCLEX like everyone else.

Sarah Kat · Dec 29, 2003

Sorry for being one of the hijakers, yes we are a bit off topic. The original post and the topic of this thread is about RN-BSN programs. And I think there is nothing wrong with completing an RN-BSN or RN-MSN online. Online education is the wave of the future, and most employers love it because they can keep their employee working and not have to hand out an educational LOA.

Sheri257 · Dec 29, 2003

Originally posted by Sarah Kat
FYI - Chiropractors have graduate degrees (D.C.) and are doctors. And while nursing is still not technically considered to be a profession, chiropractic is. Oh yeah, and just because someone completes a degree in nursing, it doesn't mean they will be licensed. They still have to sit for the NCLEX like everyone else.

You guys aren't doing yourselves any favors by defending naturopaths and chiropractors. I'm sure many nurses on this board will find it laughable when you say that chiropractors have more credentials than they do.

No wonder Excelsior is in trouble :chuckle

Of course they have to pass the NCLEX and, of course, that's no substitute for clinical experience. I guess you missed the fact that some hospitals aren't hiring them because of patient endangerment. That is, after all, why the California BORN cracked down on them.

If Excelsior students are going to justify these practices (and, thankfully, people like Kim and Teresa don't), I am grateful to be California resident and I am grateful the California BORN did what they did.

Wow, amazing. Usually people argue for higher standards in their profession, Not lower. This is truly unbelievable, and a sad commentary on the whole situation.