I am curious to know if you would be offended, if at church on Sunday your Pastor got up and said a prayer for Church Mice?
I mean he prayed that the mice be strengthened and given the ability to carry out their mousey duties and to eventually render the Church unusable, so that the Parisheners would finally have to pony up the dough to pay for a new Church.
ok I am kidding here is the original post but hey if you are just now reading this thread there have been many twists and turns and I no longer say a prayer over the deceased and yes largely due to many of the points made in this thread. Also NO i would not be offended if anyone of any belief Satanist, TO Catholic said prayers or whipered chants or whatever in my ear that said it was and is an interesting thread but please read about 5-10 of the current posts prior to posting
Now The
ORIGNAL POST
I am curious to know if you would be offended, after death if someone were to say a prayer over you.
I would really like to hear from as many Agnostic or Atheist as possible.
I recently began saying a prayer over anyone that dies in my presence. Many times I do not know if the person had a religious preference or not. I am curious to know if people would be offended if they knew someone was going to pray over them when they die.
here is the prayer
Dear Lord not our will but yours. Into thine hands we commend the spirit of this peaceful child of God. Prepare a place for him/her Now in Your Heavenly Kingdom![/Quote]
A lot of people do find it offensive to be prayed for. Even if it is silent and more for your benefit, it is using their death. If they were alive, they might object to their death being associated with a religion to which they don't subscribe. I know you are doing it in good faith, but it can also be very disrespectful. No one would know unless you told them, so it's really in your own heart.
If anything, I wouldn't pray that they have a place in heaven. I guess it's not necessarily the religion, but what exactly you are saying. A person's ideas about the afterlife are sacred and should be respected. By wishing something else upon them w/o their consent (and thus imposing your belief), you are being disrespectful.
I would say a prayer or think a nice thought of thanks for their time and life on this planet, the goodness you witnessed in them, or something you experienced with them. Prayers and meditation used for thanks and simple statement are often underrated.
I am a Wiccan and I have prayed with patients before because I did not want to offend them. I just remained silent and focused my energies and good thoughts toward the patient while they prayed to their God. I don't know if this would be offensive to them, but then again they shouldn't assume everyone is Christian and ask them to pray with them either. As a Wiccan I am not offended by prayer, it is just positive thoughts being directed toward a goal after all, but the mention of "God", "heaven" etc would bother me a little. A more generic prayer might be in order such as what is suggested by Fraggle. But in the end.... I would be dead, so I don't know that it would really matter!
I am curious to know if you would be offended, after death if someone were to say a prayer over you.
YES YES YES I would be offended. It is not only disrepectful to do such a thing, it is also unethical. Keep your faith to yourself when on the job (and when around me too please).
I would like to point out part of your statement, "if we are also required to adhere to any of the religious beliefs or rules of others. " Never is anyone "required" to adhere. Just because someone witnesses someone practicing a religeous rite, or wearing of a symbol in no way reflects participation. If the mere site or sound of religeon is offensive then the problem goes much deeper. One of our Jewish nurses posted information on the celebration of Ramadon in the nurses station. Did I feel violated? NO, as she does not feel offended when I wear my cross. People who preach tolerance need to practice what they preach, otherwise it is nothing but plain hypocrisy. Tolerance vs. Abstinance...I vote for tolerance.
As for saying prayer, I do, silently. I agree it is for myself and the family. At death, I believe the eternal fate of that person is fixed with the last breath they take.
I beg to differ on the "required to adhere" portion of your statement. Someone earlier in the thread talked about laws made due to the bible, and I have to bring up one new one in particular that upsets me. The recent passage of the "marriage definition" laws in about 11 states and proposed federal law by President Bush. This law is based PURELY on the bible's views toward marriage and it has been forced on a significant part of the population now. Marriage should not be defined biblically and there definitely should not be laws limiting it as they are, and I think this applies no matter what your view of homosexuals. Review all evidence in our society and I believe you will find more instances of laws and practices that we all have to adhere to that are religiously based. What about the Pledge??
I beg to differ on the "required to adhere" portion of your statement. Someone earlier in the thread talked about laws made due to the bible, and I have to bring up one new one in particular that upsets me. The recent passage of the "marriage definition" laws in about 11 states and proposed federal law by President Bush. This law is based PURELY on the bible's views toward marriage and it has been forced on a significant part of the population now. Marriage should not be defined biblically and there definitely should not be laws limiting it as they are, and I think this applies no matter what your view of homosexuals. Review all evidence in our society and I believe you will find more instances of laws and practices that we all have to adhere to that are religiously based. What about the Pledge??
No one forces you to say the pledge, or any part thereof that is found "offensive." The marriage law was voted on where I live. There are many laws, true that could be argued that they are bibliclly based....as in laws regarding murder, thieving etc. you get the drift.
While I stand strongly that ppl should be allowed to express their faith, (reasonably), I dn't stand with the extreem right evangelicals that want to legislate morality. According to the New Testiment and Christ's techings, I've never come across an account of His teachings being forced on anyone. He said ,"who so ever will." Far as I can tell, Christ was a huge proponent of free will, and so am I. I will share my faith if asked. I will express my faith as a privilege of freedom. If I offend anyone, I expect to be told in a respectful manner and would change my behavior as long as it does not infringe on my faith or constitutional rights.
edited because I can't spell...where is the spell check?
Thought to all out there maybe the essence of the prayer is to help sooth the sayer not the one its being said over. I may not be the same faith as you but have no fear I would not hold offence we all have things to do in order to tolerate a patients passing.
Hey, CCU NRS, just to turn it back, what would your response be if a Jew, a Muslim, a Mormon, a Baptist, an Episcopalian, a Catholic prayed over you?
I will take any and all good thoughts prayers and well wishing from any denomination. Including native American which I find to be a very beautiful religion, I was very close to some Native Americans in my youth and the singing over the dead I always found wonderful, Wiccan I get behind an Earth Mother, or Goddess too. I was a pretty rotten man in my youth and i wll take all the help I ca get to find Nirvana, Heaven, Shang Gri la, whatever because i do believe in an afterlife and I hopoe it is a nice place rather than like an endless wait in a bus terminal!
Specializes in LTC,Hospice/palliative care,acute care.
Encyclopedia Article from Encarta
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Comment: The first ten Amendments were ratified December 15, 1791, and form what is known as the Bill of Rights.
A Amendment 1
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Comment: The First Amendment guarantees freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and freedom of association and assembly. It also protects the rights of citizens to worship as they please and the right not to be forced to support someone else's religion. The First Amendment also provides for the right to demand a change in government policies.
No one forces you to say the pledge, or any part thereof that is found "offensive." The marriage law was voted on where I live. There are many laws, true that could be argued that they are bibliclly based....as in laws regarding murder, thieving etc. you get the drift.
While I stand strongly that ppl should be allowed to express their faith, (reasonably), I dn't stand with the extreem right evangelicals that want to legislate morality. According to the New Testiment and Christ's techings, I've never come across an account of His teachings being forced on anyone. He said ,"who so ever will." Far as I can tell, Christ was a huge proponent of free will, and so am I. I will share my faith if asked. I will express my faith as a privilege of freedom. If I offend anyone, I expect to be told in a respectful manner and would change my behavior as long as it does not infringe on my faith or constitutional rights.
edited because I can't spell...where is the spell check?
I agree about the spell check, LOL. Anyway to continue off topic, I have to address some of the things you brought up. About the laws on murder, thieving etc being biblical, I don't agree. I think you can be human and moral and good and not be a follower of Jesus. In other words, murder is not wrong just because "thou shalt not kill" is a commandment etc. It is a basic crime against humanity and I am sure has been considered wrong for long before the bible has been around. I don't want this to sound offensive, truly I don't...but as for Jesus' teachings being forced on people: what about the Crusades? What about the Missions the Spanish forced on the Native Americans? What about the Inquisition? There are many more examples through history if one cares to look, some not all that long ago depending on how you look at it. The Pledge BTW was altered to add the words "under God" in the 40's. Before that the Pledge was religion free. And as far as I know, the kids are forced to say it....every day at school. I know mine are, and every effort to remove the words "under god" has been met with resistance and extreme religious uproar. I hope that everyone can express their religious or non-religious beliefs without fear of retribution, right now it seems that only certain groups are allowed to do so. I see no reason for anyone to change their behaviors or religious practices as long as they keep them to themselves and don't push them on others.
You cannot get 'prayed' into heaven. The only way you get to heaven is by coming to Christ by faith while you are alive. Once you are dead--it's over. You are either with the Lord or you are with Satan.
/QUOTE]
I was clinically dead for about 5 minutes after a horrible car accident one time. I didn't see any bright lights... does that mean I'm going to hell to hang out with Satan? I hope Satan has lattes down there.
I don't guess I'd be offended by it since it was done in my best interests, and since I'd be dead lol...if I were alive it would be a different story, since I am a Pagan and I don't believe in God, heaven, or hell, and let me tell you as a Witch living in the Deep South I have had my share of prayer practically forced on me as people have actually chased me down the street saying I was going to hell and offering to save my soul lol...however, in the original scenario I'd be touched that someone thought enough of me to send blessings to my spirit.
The whole funeral debate is intriguiging too...I would LOVE to have a Viking funeral too and I'm looking into the legality of it here, and I refuse to be embalmed...I'm actually (at the young age of 27) having a will drawn up within the end of this year directing exactly what I want in case events happen, since I am of a different religion than my entire family and I want my wishes carried out...I am sure that my husband would do so but I am afraid that if he were upset he would be easily manipulated into doing something I would not want done, such as having my body embalmed, etc...
ChrisA
143 Posts
Hey, CCU NRS, just to turn it back, what would your response be if a Jew, a Muslim, a Mormon, a Baptist, an Episcopalian, a Catholic prayed over you?