The Circumcision Discussion - page 4
I know this can be a HUGE debate, and I'm not looking to start any arguments. I was just wondering as you are OB nurses. I'm expecting a boy in July and not sure if we should circ. or not. My... Read More
May 29, '03Joined: Mar '02; Posts: 1,843; Likes: 1,237gomco is a clamp. i think circ's are a cosmetic thing that some people want. i have three girls, so i never got to make the DECISION (thankyou God). people don't do this to torture or mutilate their sons, they do it because they think it's the best thing (for a variety of reasons). truth of the matter is that the complication rate is very low. i have seen hundreds since 1990. worst complication i saw was when betadine was not cleansed from the legs and pubic area afterwards and skin was horrendously irritated.
the peds and family drs. do circ's at my hospital. they do them carefully and they use anesthetic which they wait for to take effect before proceeding. at my old job, the ob's did the circ's. no aneshtesia. they probably wouldn't wait for it to work anyway. most of the parents i meet have really considered this carefully, esp. if it is their 1st son. while i might not agree w/ circ'ing, i try to be sensitive and realize people don't do this maliciously. the drs are very careful to talk to parents and answer all of their questions. we give parents a "circumcision fact sheet" w/ pro's and cons of circ'ing in each column.
it's like bottlefeeding. i may not think it's the best thing or what i would choose, but it is not my child. i am here to provide information, teaching, and support mom and dad's autonomy in decision making for their child. my gyn doc's son was circ'd at 14. her and her husband were hippies and wanted everything natural. their son really really wanted to be circ'd, so he talked his parents into it as a teen. social pressure is a very strong force whether or not it should be.
May 29, '03Joined: Apr '02; Posts: 38,771; Likes: 16,375For those wondering about the sexual stimulation aspect, Ana's post really discusses this well. Go back and check it out. Have a great day, all.
May 29, '03Specialty: 9 year(s) of experience in med/surg, cardiac/telemetry, hospice ; Joined: May '99; Posts: 192; Likes: 17Originally posted by caroladybelle
I feel the need to clarify something.
If you are referring to FEMALE circumcision, there is a BIG difference. (What is vaginal circumcision?). The proper term actually is mutilation, as circumcision is a misnomer.
The procedure that you are referring to varies from cutting out the clitoris to cutting away the clitoris, labia minora and labia majora. It is frequently done without any anesthetic or any hygienic measures. At times there is only a small match-sized hole is left to faciltate urine and menstrual blood passage - everything else is sutured up. Women sometimes have to cut open with a knife (also without hygeine, or anesthetic) on their wedding nights or for child birth.
The death/infection rate is high. The maternal death rate/infection rate/complication rate on these women are high. The infant infection rate/mortality rate is high. The long term side effects of the procedure is detrimental (UTIs/Incontinence).
The only known purpose for this procedure is to discourage women from having sex. PERIOD. Though popularly associated with Islam, it is not sanctioned officially by any major religion, to my knowledge. It is a purely culture phenomenon.
In terms of sexual sensation (and nerve endings), reputable MDs liken it more to having the entire penis cut off in its most conservative form, and portions of other genitalia scrapped away in more extensive varations.
Please do not compare female circumcision to male circumcision. It is not remotely comparable.
"Female circumcision" is the removal of the "hood" over the clitoris, usually when it is too large and hinders sensation in adults.
What gets me is here we are as a society continuing a surgical procedure (let's call it what it is) on neonates that was begun because of ignorance of the infectious process. And most of the time now it is done for "esthetic" reasons. Even many of the Jewish faith nowadays perform a symbolic circumcision, in which a drop of blood from the foreskin is produced, leaving the foreskin intact.
May 29, '03Joined: Jul '01; Posts: 2,151; Likes: 86I'm not even going to get into the personal decision-side of this issue, but want to ditto what some others have said:
If you do decide to get your son circ'd, feel free to "shop" around for a Pedi that will agree to use either/and the EMLA and Lido block (as far as I know, they can both be used...?). What Stevie mentioned about the pacifier is very good advice- nothing soothes a baby like a pacifier, especially one that is dipped in a sucrose solution and given to the baby immediately before the doctor starts clamping/snipping (if your MD doesn't have sucrose solution, you can buy some from www.childmed.com)- the sucrose is shown to dull the pain sensors in the babies if given immediately prior to a painful procedure. And finally, and this is the part I am ADAMANT about!!!: be sure to INSIST that the MD give you a script for Tylenol or analgesia to use at least for the 24 hours post-circ. Many, many, many MD's are reluctant to give pain medication, for a variety of reasons, to neonates, and this makes me want to scream. Babies do feel pain, it is an outpatient surgical procedure, etc. Just because they may not REMEMBER the pain doesn't mean that they won't hurt. IMO, that's no justification for a lack of analgesia.
That's it for my 2 cents.
May 29, '03Joined: Jul '00; Posts: 11,351; Likes: 388Did anyone mention that the original reason circumcision was adopted in wester society was because it was believed to decrease masturbation and thus prevent the diseases masturbation causes? LOL!!
Seriously, it is a personal choice. There are no real medical reasons to do it (preventing foreskin infections? That's like saying we should pull out our teeth to prevent cavities). There are cultural and emotional reasons. I think any family who chooses to circumcize should watch a video of the procedure first. You should know EXACTLY what the doctor will do to your son. Then decide if you feel strongly enough to do it. I can't agree with Kristi enough: If they don't use analgesia before and after the procedure I would get another doctor. Babies DO feel pain (even though they can't verbalize it and sometimes react by zoning out, which parents interpret as being pain free). And they deserve to have their pain treated.
May 29, '03Joined: Oct '02; Posts: 146I have given birth to 3 boys and all of them were circed. My dh is not circed.
No opinion here. Unless you have some religious beliefs that encourage circs, go ahead.
My dh was the first person I have been intimate with that wasn't and I see no difference.
I was there with all 3 circs of my sons and they wern't in any pain (anesthesia used). Consult with your dh or so and appreciate his opinion.
May 30, '03Occupation: registered nurse Joined: Nov '01; Posts: 1,083; Likes: 14there is no medical reasons for routine circumcision that good hygiene will not take care of. unless foreskin cannot be retracted r/t tightness which is rare. it is more socially accepted now than in the past. I have been in plenty of locker rooms and gym classes and hardly ever witnessed any of the teasing that is claimed. it is a personal decision you need to make. as far as the pain goes, how can we be sure the pain has no effect, a few yrs a go I worked with a doc who thought babies less that a yr where not affected by pain and would not give pain meds to his pt that had surgery! if circ is done there are many methods to help alleviate some of the pain be sure the use them. and most of all do not watch
May 30, '03Occupation: nursing Joined: Nov '01; Posts: 155; Likes: 20I believe I read somewhere that the American Academy of Pediatrics now discourages routine circumcision. As for my personal opinion - a foreskin is a part of a males body. There is absolutley no reason to circumsize a child. (other than for the surgeon to make money) If woman would correlate circumcision with having one of there labia cut off they would never do this to their child!
May 30, '03Occupation: staff nurse Joined: Apr '03; Posts: 84I have worked in operating room,I`ve seen repeat circ,usually cases when they have it during infancy(prob coz of immaturity of d foreskin so sometimes difficult to do it properly or do it with style ie,german cut,gomco cut etc.),if you go ahead with the plan,I think it`s better for your boy to have it before going to school by then circ will be more appreciated,effects of lignocaine will not be as bad as during infancy.
May 30, '03Occupation: RN - Administrator Joined: Sep '00; Posts: 350; Likes: 59Originally posted by zoeboboey
I think personally it's better that you wait to be circumcised til after the baby is born.
Really, I needed that laugh after this week....Last edit by babs_rn on Oct 31, '03
May 30, '03Joined: Aug '01; Posts: 362; Likes: 27When I researched circ (after I had already had it done to my son and started wondering whther it had been wise) I decided there wouldn't be a compelling reason to do it if I had another boy and that I would be more than happy to explain to them why they were different.
My son had problems with adhesions. I had to pay meticulous attention to this area to try to keep the adhesions from forming, which they did despite my efforts, so i never really got the whole "less hygiene" argument. I finally gave up and decided the adhesions will either resolve on their own or he can have something done about it when he gets older.
Most people I know haven't had problems with it, but there is the very real risk of complications. So you have to weigh that against the increased risk for UTI and penile cancer and make your own decision. "I want him to look like everyone else" was my reasoning and it wasn't until later that I decided that not only did everyone else not look like that, but that it was a silly reason to go cutting on babies.
May 30, '03Joined: Aug '01; Posts: 362; Likes: 27http://www.aap.org/mrt/factscir.htm
Here's the AAP statement
May 31, '03Occupation: RN in L&D Joined: Nov '01; Posts: 720; Likes: 185Lol I still belive what I said before but Im also getting a kick out of some of the arguments on this board. both sides have said some pretty funny things.
anyway it is a good disscusion and at the least thought provoking.
Please join me in mourning the loss of my forskin LOL!!!