Nursing students who want to be NP's

Nurses General Nursing

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Anyone else notice that many of their nursing students are becoming nurses as a stepping stone to being a nurse practitioner but have little interest in being a floor nurse? I'm worried we won't have bedside nurses before long.

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

Cvepo: NPs aren't; that is my point. They should be held to the same high standards of anyone considered to be in an advanced practice role.

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Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVICU.
Cvepo: NPs aren't; that is my point. They should be held to the same high standards of anyone considered to be in an advanced practice role.

That's what I'm saying as well! I think we are all in agreement.

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Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

Too bad so many are NOT in agreement. They don't understand that the schools are in it for the money. Cranking out NPs with no experience is a-ok to them. They don't have to worry about anything else but making $$$

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Specializes in Med-Surg/ ER/ homecare.
CriticalACNP gave a well thought-out explanation of his opinion on the topic. You then posted something entirely rude and patronizing in response. It wasn't called for, it's poor form if you wish to engage in debate, and he didn't deserve it. Not appropriate.

CriticalACNP, thank you for your post and point of view, it is appreciated by many.

While I absolutely agree with what Critical ACNP had to say, parts of it did come across as smug.

I do agree that NP programs should require more experience. I cannot imagine being freshly out of nursing school and thinking I was ready to dive into NP school head on. I was quite surprised to see that the number one ranked NP program in the nation (according to US News) requires only one year of full time RN experience, and the GPA requirements are just a 3.0. This also is a DNP program, as it looks as if they dont offer the NP under the MSN track any longer, and I know that has its own controversy.

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....what little I've written is absolutely spot on and backed by the best NPs around...I'm not doing to debate the subject with anyone here as it would be an exercise in futility....

While I absolutely agree with what Critical ACNP had to say, parts of it did come across as smug...

And another term comes to mind: broad-brush.

Spicy prawns (who am I alluding to? Hint: politics)

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Specializes in ICU, LTACH, Internal Medicine.

I was quite surprised to see that the number one ranked NP program in the nation (according to US News) requires only one year of full time RN experience, and the GPA requirements are just a 3.0. This also is a DNP program, as it looks as if they dont offer the NP under the MSN track any longer, and I know that has its own controversy.

The things are actually a bit more complicated. Most higher-range programs have "internal cutoff" GPA, which is not published and determined separately for every cohort. My class had "official" cutoff of 3.0 but internal one was somewhere around 3.6 - 3.7 and mean class composite GPA was 3.89 at admission point. Same story goes about job experience (officially, 12 months but somehow no one in class had it less than about 2 years) and undergraduate school (nobody openly said that some prereqs, only given as part of BSN curriculum, will be accepted only from certain schools and not from online diploma mills, but somehow it came to be this way).

Those NP programs which care for their, that is to say, quality of product, are between rock and hard place. They have to be selective, yet they cannot scare off too many applicants and sacrifice those $50/head in admission fees. So, they use internal cutoff criteria widely and freely.

Unfortunately, only two ways to figure such things out beforehead are to have close personal contacts within the institution or painstakingly search LinkedIn

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Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.

I think NETY is being replaced by NHNPS (Nurses Hate NP Students).

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Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

Boston: I disagree. I have interacted with quite a few NP students through the years I knew would be amazing. I don't "hate" anyone. But I do have problems with the notion that a shortcut to such an advanced and high-reliability role be made with no background experience. If that is the new "NETY" I don't know what to tell you.

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Specializes in Med Surg/ICU/Psych/Emergency/CEN/retired.

I was quite surprised to see that the number one ranked NP program in the nation (according to US News) requires only one year of full time RN experience, and the GPA requirements are just a 3.0. This also is a DNP program, as it looks as if they dont offer the NP under the MSN track any longer, and I know that has its own controversy.

The things are actually a bit more complicated. Most higher-range programs have "internal cutoff" GPA, which is not published and determined separately for every cohort. My class had "official" cutoff of 3.0 but internal one was somewhere around 3.6 - 3.7 and mean class composite GPA was 3.89 at admission point. Same story goes about job experience (officially, 12 months but somehow no one in class had it less than about 2 years) and undergraduate school (nobody openly said that some prereqs, only given as part of BSN curriculum, will be accepted only from certain schools and not from online diploma mills, but somehow it came to be this way).

Those NP programs which care for their, that is to say, quality of product, are between rock and hard place. They have to be selective, yet they cannot scare off too many applicants and sacrifice those $50/head in admission fees. So, they use internal cutoff criteria widely and freely.

Unfortunately, only two ways to figure such things out beforehead are to have close personal contacts within the institution or painstakingly search LinkedIn

Thank you posting this, as things are more complicated, and you have very credible recent first hand experience. I am one who thinks a draconian approach to a GPA cut off is short sighted. And some of the best schools do consider more than the GPA, wise IMO. There may be some leeway for a lower GPA when all else is considered for admission.

When I found out that graduate schools were ranked not on their students but on their faculty and subsequently how much funding faculty received for research, I was surprised. If am off base, someone please correct me. The standard for educating NP students should not be down graded. When did we see the criteria for educating physicians down graded/made easier because there was a shortage? I remain perplexed that nursing at times is its own worst enemy. But I digress....

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Boston: I disagree. I have interacted with quite a few NP students through the years I knew would be amazing. I don't "hate" anyone. But I do have problems with the notion that a shortcut to such an advanced and high-reliability role be made with no background experience. If that is the new "NETY" I don't know what to tell you.
I agree....I'm not really sure if I'm interpreting the tone of Boston's comment correctly, however. I can't tell if s/he means to say that nurses are picking NP students as their new victims, or that the new "nurses are so mean to students" rallying cry instead of NETY has now been replaced by NHNPS. Boston, can you clarify please? Tone is hard if not impossible to read on the 'net sometimes.
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Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
Boston: I disagree. I have interacted with quite a few NP students through the years I knew would be amazing. I don't "hate" anyone. But I do have problems with the notion that a shortcut to such an advanced and high-reliability role be made with no background experience. If that is the new "NETY" I don't know what to tell you.

My comment was tongue in cheek but you can feel free to disagree.

I am sure you knew some NP students you were confident would go on to be just wonderful providers. Some questions about that: What about these students made you so sure they would be amazing? Was it just because they had nursing experience? Did they go on to be great providers? How do you know? On what metric are you evaluating their clinical performance in that role?

I am a little confused as to what exactly you feel the "shortcut" is? Not requiring nursing experience? What does the extant literature suggest re: prior nursing experience on NP clinical outcome?

It's a little sad one of the biggest challenges novice NPs face as they enter practice is other nurses who have strong opinions on the issue but little-to-no experience in NP education or NP practice.

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Specializes in Med-Surg/ ER/ homecare.

I was quite surprised to see that the number one ranked NP program in the nation (according to US News) requires only one year of full time RN experience, and the GPA requirements are just a 3.0. This also is a DNP program, as it looks as if they dont offer the NP under the MSN track any longer, and I know that has its own controversy.

I have heard of the "internal cutoff" before, just surprised such a school doesnt have a higher posted GPA cutoff. The cutoff you speak of is why i decided ahead of time when I went back for my BSN that I was going to make sure I got as close to a 4.0 as possible so that I could make myself a competitive candidate for the NP program I wanted.

The things are actually a bit more complicated. Most higher-range programs have "internal cutoff" GPA, which is not published and determined separately for every cohort. My class had "official" cutoff of 3.0 but internal one was somewhere around 3.6 - 3.7 and mean class composite GPA was 3.89 at admission point. Same story goes about job experience (officially, 12 months but somehow no one in class had it less than about 2 years) and undergraduate school (nobody openly said that some prereqs, only given as part of BSN curriculum, will be accepted only from certain schools and not from online diploma mills, but somehow it came to be this way).

Those NP programs which care for their, that is to say, quality of product, are between rock and hard place. They have to be selective, yet they cannot scare off too many applicants and sacrifice those $50/head in admission fees. So, they use internal cutoff criteria widely and freely.

Unfortunately, only two ways to figure such things out beforehead are to have close personal contacts within the institution or painstakingly search LinkedIn

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