Nursing students and immaturity

Nursing Students General Students

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Hi! I wanted to bring something up that really surprised me & I'm not sure what to do about it. First of all, let me say that we have a number of males in our nursing program, and they are top-notch, fantastic, helpful, compassionate, and mature - I really enjoy having them around. This is in no way a comment on male nursing students. But here's what's going on.

A couple of the young male nursing students in my Master's (!) program think it's funny when our instructor talks about problems involving genitalia. They giggle in class and basically don't act like I would imagine someone studying medicine would act. Okay, okay, it may be unusual to hear an instructor speak frankly about the vasalva maneuver or imperforate orificees on newborns if one is not used to hearing about such things. But COME ON, we're in nursing school!

What's bothering me is that a couple of the guys have apparently been talking about me - I've had a couple of comments shouted to me across the cafeteria, and just recently one of them walked up to me after a big test and said, "Hey, X tells me you have an imperforate orifice. Is this true?" Then he just stood there staring at me, I guess waiting for my response.

I'm just not sure how to respond to this kind of comment. I am a woman in my mid- to late- forties, and I guess I don't expect to be spoken to this way by a colleague. The two guys who are saying these things are younger than me, by the way - one is in his twenties, and one is in his thirties. As far as I know, I haven't said or done anything to make these guys mad, but I feel like I'm being picked on/harrassed. It's so immature and frankly embarrassing for me that I guess I've been too shocked to respond or do anything about it. How do you think I should handle this line of questioning? I want it to stop right now, and I certainly don't want to respond in a way that will just exacerbate this behavior. I feel like nursing school is stressful enough, and I just want to do my best, graduate, and become an awesome nurse.

Thanks!

Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
Which part is sexual harassment?

2 men are making improper comments about personal places to a female.

Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
2 men are making improper comments about personal places to a female.
What about those comments were sexual? I didn't gather from the OP that she was feeling either discriminated against because of her gender nor was taking those comments in a sexual manner. If she was, then maybe that is appropriate.

Don't get me wrong. Sexual harassment should not be tolerated, by either sex. Nor should it be flung about casually to "win" an argument. I have seen several good male nurses have a professional disagreement and end up on the other end of a frivolous lawsuit that costs them their job.

I'm definitely not thinking this is sexual harassment in the sense that someone is hitting on me in a sexual way, but I do wonder if I would be the recipient of these questions if I were a man, meaning that I find the comments sexist because they are blatantly disrespectful, they are coming from men, and they are being asked of a woman. What I mean is, these guys are making a fairly brazen assumption that it's perfectly fine to make "humorous" remarks that reference my anatomy and at which I'm not laughing. Is that not a bit audacious? Not, I suppose, if they were speaking to someone who's well "beneath" them, but in today's world we tend not to categorize others as more or less worthy of respect (or we strive not to, right?).

In any case, I'm not so much interested in pursuing that aspect because 1. I really want the hostility/meanness to stop and if I point this out I expect that I will simply increase the hostility that lurks behind the comments 2. though I strongly suspect that some small part of this is coming from a place of misogyny (men suddenly finding themselves in a female-dominated field taught by powerful instructors who are, in the main, female & who berate them in class when they giggle about body parts), I have no way of proving this and no way of knowing, myself, whether or not this is simply a conclusion I'm jumping to because I feel disrespected/hurt and 3. frankly, I don't think a guy who functions at this level of maturity could hear me if I were to take the issue in that direction. That said, I do think that there is an element of sexism in all this and it certainly makes me uncomfortable.

I can't make someone respect me. I'd sure love to be heard, though.

Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.

I hear what you are saying.....but a male approaching a female invading her personal space and asking about her orifice, not only immature and unprofessional, it is invading personal space. Intimidating someone in their personal space talking about body orifices is harassment and sexual in nature when stated by the opposite sex when intimidation is the motive. It is my belief that you can't harass the willing...however this person feels intimidated and uncomfortable and they have just continued to harass this person of the opposite sex with statements about her orifice.

If someone came up to my daughter and made a statement like that they will end up in jail. If they were to do it to a guy they would probably get their face punched.

I'm not saying get a lawyer .......but these guys need some sensitivity training

[h=3]Sexual Harassment - EEOC[/h]It is unlawful to harass a person (an applicant or employee) because of that person’s sex. Harassment can include “sexual harassment” or unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical harassment of a sexual nature.

Harassment does not have to be of a sexual nature, however, and can include offensive remarks about a person’s sex (or her orifice). For example, it is illegal to harass a woman by making offensive comments about women(or their orifice) in general.

Unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature constitute sexual harassment when

  1. submission to such conduct is made either explicitly or implicitly a term or condition of an individual's employment,

  2. submission to or rejection of such conduct by an individual is used as the basis for employment decisions affecting such individuals, or

  3. such conduct has the purpose or effect of unreasonably interfering with an individual's work performance or creating an intimidating, hostile, or offensive working environment.
    (29 C.F.R. 1604.11 [1980])

Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
I'm definitely not thinking this is sexual harassment in the sense that someone is hitting on me in a sexual way, but I do wonder if I would be the recipient of these questions if I were a man, meaning that I find the comments sexist because they are blatantly disrespectful, they are coming from men, and they are being asked of a woman. What I mean is, these guys are making a fairly brazen assumption that it's perfectly fine to make "humorous" remarks that reference my anatomy and at which I'm not laughing. Is that not a bit audacious? Not, I suppose, if they were speaking to someone who's well "beneath" them, but in today's world we tend not to categorize others as more or less worthy of respect (or we strive not to, right?).

In any case, I'm not so much interested in pursuing that aspect because 1. I really want the hostility/meanness to stop and if I point this out I expect that I will simply increase the hostility that lurks behind the comments 2. though I strongly suspect that some small part of this is coming from a place of misogyny (men suddenly finding themselves in a female-dominated field taught by powerful instructors who are, in the main, female & who berate them in class when they giggle about body parts), I have no way of proving this and no way of knowing, myself, whether or not this is simply a conclusion I'm jumping to because I feel disrespected/hurt and 3. frankly, I don't think a guy who functions at this level of maturity could hear me if I were to take the issue in that direction. That said, I do think that there is an element of sexism in all this and it certainly makes me uncomfortable.

I can't make someone respect me. I'd sure love to be heard, though.

That is what makes it harassment.

My suggestion....make it very clear to them that these comments are unwanted. Make it very clear foi they cannot conduct themselves as mature professional that they must must immediately cease and desist.....if further assaults/harassment continues that you will be notifying the director of the program and voice your complaints.

For this I rely on my favorite quote......

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent"........ Eleanor Roosevelt

Thank you very much for your advice - much appreciated, indeed.

"Hostile work environment." Sometimes you learn things in school that aren't in the syllabus. If they don't learn it now, they won't have long to learn it when they get in the actual workforce.

I would look the next jerk in the eye, and ask him to repeat it. And repeat it again, slowly and clearly. Make a good show of writing it down and show them your cell phone and let them know you are recording it. Do that. Be sure there are other people listening. Then your witnesses and you proceed to the dean of the college, not just the nursing division, and tell him/her, with the written complaint.

They will get the message loud and clear then.

I certainly would not want those idiots taking care of my loved ones. I think I would risk the animosity and let those higher up know. They are in the wrong profession!

Specializes in Trauma, Teaching.

Since you said it is beyond the nipping in the bud stage, it is time to let your advisor know. They may well be doing this to others, unbeknownst to you, and your advisor may need just a bit more evidence. If only one has complained, it may come down to he said/she said; more than one complaint will show a trend. You said they've also been berated in class for giggling, so this won't come as a shock to your advisor.

Specializes in Hospice.

Not only is this sexual harassment it is also a case of bullying. How would you advise your child to deal with bullying if he/she was a recipient of such behavior at school? It is not okay to ignore it, bullies don't just go away. The bully will move on to another person after you.

I feel you need to definitely bring it to the first person in your chain of command at school, immediately. Don't put it off another moment because it sounds as though it is already getting worse. You should NEVER have to be put in an uncomfortable position, regardless of the reason. For my chain of command, my instructor is first, then the director of the Nursing Program, then the dean of health sciences, etc. Our school (especially the nursing program!!) has ZERO tolerance of any such behavior! They don't even tolerate *friends* making cat calls or whistling to each other in the parking lot simply because it portrays an image of unprofessionalism and a lack of credibility to the people they have chosen to be in the program. We are to be professional at all times because we, as individuals, are a direct reflection on our program and our instructors. And quite frankly it should be that way all the time, even when you're employed at a facility. There could be a patient walking by you while you're calling out a vulgar comment to your friend, and they have no idea it's your friend. Would they have confidence in your hospital if they were to witness that? Probably not. I wouldn't snap back at them with a snarky comment. Even though it would be fun to put them in their place, it makes you look just as immature and unprofessional. Good luck, that's a crummy position to be in!

Specializes in ER, TRAUMA, MED-SURG.

I LOVE THIS!!!!!!!! You took the words right out of my mouth

Me too! I couldn't have come up with it - love this!

Anne, RNC

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