Nursing Student Ethical Dilemna

[cbs701]

I was doing my OB rotation when the instructor brings us out into the hall. She says that there is a young mom who is delivering multiple babies now and the babies are very preterm. None of them survived.

She wanted us to go and see their remains, which was a good thing, as it gives us an idea of how a baby looks as it's developing.

The hard part for me was when she said she was going to baptize the babies. She proceeded to get a cup of water and pour some on the babies' heads and pray over them.

I asked her, "Did the mom ask for this?"

Response: "No. It's just something I like to do. Most people are Christian around here anyway." (We live in the heart of the Bible belt.)

This made me very angry, and I wanted to know how the rest of you feel.

Thanks...

[FlyingScot, RN]

I did not know that anyone could perform a baptism. If it were me and I was the parent, I would be livid. It is just my personal belief that only a ordained priest or minister would be able to baptize my child.

Sometimes there isn't time to get an ordained minister. In those cases most religions agree that a lay person, in good faith, can and should perform the rite of baptism. I have done it many times and trust me it is done with an incredible sense of reverence for the sacred nature of the rite as well as a personal sense of honor to be allowed to perform it. When I did it I always tried to wrap the baby in some sort of baptismal garment even if it was just a clean cloth diaper. I would write the name of the infant and the date on the edge of the cloth and give it to the parents along with foot and handprints and a lock of hair if possible. Trust me the enormity of what I needed to do was not lost on me and I don't think an ordained minister could have done it with more tenderness or emotion.

[OCNRN63, RN]

I would not appreciate it, not because of who did it, but because it was done. My faith does not believe in infant baptism, so if someone did that without my permission, it would be disrespectful of my beliefs.

[FlyingScot, RN]

I would not appreciate it, not because of who did it, but because it was done. My faith does not believe in infant baptism, so if someone did that without my permission, it would be disrespectful of my beliefs.

I probably should have been more clear. I only baptized infants/children at the parents request. It was our custom with a moribund child to ask if there were any religious customs or rites they wanted performed. Another example would be that if we transported a Muslim child dead (for autopsy) or alive we would do our best to keep them facing Mecca. If the child was from a Christian background that does not practice infant baptism then we would assist the parents in dedicating them if they so wished. Sometimes we could get clergy on the phone.

I would NEVER take it upon myself to perform anything of even a remotely religious nature to someone else's child. Now. When the feces hit the fan I have found myself muttering a prayer for myself but I think that's acceptable.

[MeiLana]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I had a preceptor who did this, too and it blew my ever-lovin' mind. She was catholic and said if she thought the baby was going to die, she'd baptize it in the bathroom where they couldn't see or something like that.

Not to put too fine a point on the craziness there, but she also suggested I would be expected to join a prayer circle to protect a set of parents from the dark forces and energies present in their household at their next birth.

I found a way out of attending that birth.

totally over the line.

[VampyrSlayer, CNA]

I am very religious and this just appalls me. I myself am Christian but I went to a school where 90%of the children (this was in elementary school) were Jewish. What a slap in the face it would have been to their parents (or athiest or even Christian parents) for this to have been done. If the doctor didn't feel comfortable asking them if they wanted him to do it, that should have been a big indicator to him that he shouldn't have done it. Wow.

[ORNurseCOS]

Strange to say the least but I feel a reaction to something like this is based in what power you give the act of baptism.

For me personally, I don't believe it, so IMO she just poured water over them and that is the end of it.

With that said, from there perspective of patient advocacy this bothers me.

Stepping back from the incident and removing my personal biased I do feel this is inappropriate as it removes and or side steps the patients rights or wants. Not to mention at the end of the day I could see it being a legal issue.

[Red Kryptonite]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I had a preceptor who did this, too and it blew my ever-lovin' mind. She was catholic and said if she thought the baby was going to die, she'd baptize it in the bathroom where they couldn't see or something like that.

Not to put too fine a point on the craziness there, but she also suggested I would be expected to join a prayer circle to protect a set of parents from the dark forces and energies present in their household at their next birth.

I found a way out of attending that birth.

totally over the line.

Even we Catholics have our wack-a-doos. SMH

[RNsRWe, ASN, RN]

Not to put too fine a point on the craziness there, but she also suggested I would be expected to join a prayer circle to protect a set of parents from the dark forces and energies present in their household at their next birth.

I imagine that offering to hold a Hogwarts Circle for the parents during the next full moon might have garnered you a poor grade?

There are nuts everywhere, just really unfortunate when they have positions of authority over people's future careers.

[quixotic.dy]

Being an atheist, I just see this as throwing water on a passed away baby.

BUT knowing that the majority of the rest of the world's population doesn't feel the same I know this is beyond wildly inappropriate. I wish I could say that I didn't believe this but I have had my fair share of run ins with people who have no sense of religious boundaries (even before I was an atheist).

I would report this to everyone possible because if the mother had wanted it why was this nurse so secretive? Why wouldn't this have been done in mom's presence as part of a ceremony? Most parents want things like that because it is more memories with their little ones.

[Here.I.Stand, BSN, RN]

if the mother had wanted it why was this nurse so secretive? Why wouldn't this have been done in mom's presence as part of a ceremony?

that's a VERY good point.

[jadelpn, LPN, EMT-B]

Your clinical instructor is out of her ever lovin mind. Period.

Here, OP, is what you could learn from this situation--Parents who have stillborn infants need a great deal of support, sometimes not, but always in their control and direction. There are resources in your facility and/or in your community which can and do offer a great deal of support. So use available information and educate on all resources.

Without the parent's permission and consent, viewing of their infants by a clinical group of students, and/or other nurses/staff not directly involved in the care of said patient goes against pretty much every policy, privacy and otherwise that exists to protect patients.

That then a "procedure" was done on said infants--and one can assume that consent was not obtained if this was done in some sort of outrageous secrecy--(and yes, baptism is something that the nurse did to these infants, so in fact, it is a procedure) this, as pp have said crosses a HUGE boundary. Which I would report to the BON, the school, the hospital, and the parent company of the hospital as far as risk management and ethics.

It doesn't matter one bit what this was--a "baptism" or otherwise. What is a very, very important take away is that when you become a nurse, you do not get involved in viewing without parent's consent. You do not get involved in procedures/ceremonies/whatever without consent. There are resources available to you that can have these discussions with the parents. Who are in control of their care, as well as the post mortem care of their infants.

As a student, you are a captive audience, and your clinical instructor involved utilized such a abuse of "power" that I could just spit. A terrible violation of privacy is the least of the wrongs that this instructor involved all of you in.

Report the clinical instructor. Outrageous on any number of levels.

[tinks599]

The fact that the nursing instructor did it apparently in the absence of a request or consent of the parents indicates that she was pushing her own religious agenda. As like another poster in this thread, I am not a religious sort, so while an actual baptism means little to me - the instructor crossed an ethical line and shared it as a learning experience with students. Remember, we are caring for patients. Our job is to respect the needs and wishes of our patients. It is not about us. Your lesson was a lesson in what NOT to do.