Student about to get into trouble and in need of advice (real long...sorry!)

ukstudent · Jun 22, 2008

you might not like what i have to say, but here's my advice because you asked.

first i want to thank you guys who post here. i have been reading and it's a wonderful web site for students and new nurses. so many questions answered and mysteries solved!
second i need to ask if anyone has been in a similar situation as i find myself in now and what you did about it.
i have a leadership class and the professor is awful. she gave us no guidance or support with the clinical requirement - on our own, we had 2 days filled with classes to find a preceptor we could follow around for a total of 30 hours in 5 weeks on top of a full summer semester credit load. she wouldn't even give us the list of outside facilities we have a contract with - she read it to us in class so fast no one had time to write them down. we have to keep and submit journals and do endless ridiculous written assignments with final projects at the end.
how fast she read it and the time in which to complete it really doesn't matter because you found a preceptor in time. if you want to help others give this information to the class behind you so they will know about the requirements. this however seems to be a normal part of a bsn education.
i made the mistake of winding up with a preceptor in an outside facility who i don't know. it was the specialty i am interested in and there aren't many like it in my area.everything was fine except that she is a head nurse and busy and seems sometimes to not want me around but her staff all seem to like me and i help them out a lot with tasks they don't want to do and i have been having a positive time.
did you expect to know your preceptor? what specialty is it in. how you should act would be different if it was in psych compared to mother/baby compared to icu. you should have gone to the facility with a list of objectives that need to be covered during your time there. did you have this, did you accomplish the objectives? helping with tasked is ok but did you help as a nurse (placing iv's, suctioning, dressing changes, etc under the direct supervision of a nurse) or did you do cna tasks ( cleaning pts, stocking rooms etc). if you were doing tech stuff then being liked and having a positive time was not what was needed. learning to be a nurse was more important.
i had to give the preceptor an evaluation for me and she gave it back and i looked at it when i left and she gave me 1 - on absolutely everything. - the grading is 1 through 5 points with 1 being the worst.
this again goes to what were the objectives and did you fulfill them. you don't say what was on the evaluation form. if you did fulfill the objectives then you need to see if another nurse will sign off on the form. find out what can you do to increase the number.
she has never let me help her - i took the initiative to write a note (not meant to be a nurses note) because after she left one day something occurred with cousins fighting over a client and no one was at the nurses station but me. i had no authority to get involved but i did listen and defuse the situation and gave my name and told them why i was there and told them i would inform staff. i got a nasty critical attitude from the nurse manager about my note the next week but no real feedback.
never write a note in a chart that then becomes a legal document without the full knowledge and approval of the nurse for that pt. if you needed to write down what happened then a loose piece of paper clipped to the chart that can then be removed would have been better. live and learn.
anyway - when i told the perceptor on friday i would be back her face fell and rolling her eyes and looking someone who was visiting her as if there was a big secret she said, "are you learning anything here?!" she never asked me to do anything or gave me any direction on what i should be doing there - never gave me an indication i wasn't doing well in this clinical. i did feed difficult clients and spent time with them and talked to them and walked with them and the clients hug me and kiss me - so i can't be all that terrible.
clients liking you does not make you a nurse. it just means that your nice. are you learning anything there!!! a lot of nurse is self directed. you need to be pro-active and ask to follow her and ask questions about how she assess her pt's, how she determines which one to see first, how does she prioritize the care that needs to be done, how does she write her notes? these are all things that you should have been learning. did you ask what you could do for her or did you leave her and help other nurses because she was busy and frustrated with having a student? if she didn't see you do nurses stuff because you were with other nurses then how can you expect her to evaluate you.
i wondered she thinks i am planning to pursue a job there after graduation. i am not but they she asked. the director of nursing there asked me when i graduate and i am wondering if my preceptor is jealous and spiteful - i can't tell. (her staff and the facility love her and she is one of the best they have there).
i want to ask you all...should i...go back and speak to this woman? i really really do not want to cause she is closed and stubborn (and i don't trust her) and i have already put up with too much.
part of being a mature professional person is the ability to talk to people face to face about problems. yes you should talk to her and find out why she gave you the evaluation that she did and what you can do to improve. what was her expectation of you during this time? you say you have already put up with too much, can you give examples. you have not said anything that i can understand as a major problem. unless you did ask for direction each day and asked for feed back on your progress and was given none.
should i go to the student counseling office at school? they'll give me some standard counseling but they can't and won't get involved. my professor for this course would be more than happy to blame this on me and fail me - she is a mean person.
i am tempted to fake the evaluation form and hand in a forged signature copy and that thought scares me - why should i be dishonest and risk being thrown out of school and ruining everything when i feel the course and the people i should be looking up to failed, not me? i am graduating at the end of the summer with a bsn and this is really upsetting. any feedback is very much appreciated. and thanks nurses! and best wishes to all of you who are suffering with professors and preceptors from hell.

when everyone around you is mean and trying to fail you, it is time to look at yourself. are others having the same problem or are you doing or not doing something that is causing the problems.

now there are nasty professors and there are nurses that should never be preceptors. give us more details because to me at least, nothing out of the ordinary seems to have occurred.

AirforceRN, RN · Jun 22, 2008

This is what I would do...

1) DO NOT FAKE THE EVALUATION!! If you get caught you will not only be removed from the program but quite possibly prohibited from ever coming back to that school. This is akin to cheating and very frowned upon.

2)Go to your preceptor when she has a few minutes, sit down with your evaluation, ask her where you went wrong, why you received the marks you did and is there anything you can do to change that. Who knows, maybe she didn't actually read the form and thought that 1 was the best number? You deserve an explanation for such a poor grade and also deserve a chance to rectify if possible. Sometimes a polite "what the heck happenend?" is all that is needed.

Best of luck

RainDreamer, BSN, RN · Jun 22, 2008

i tend to agree with ukstudent ....... maybe i'm not getting the whole picture here, something just seems to be missing from this whole story, maybe we just need more details. if you're having trouble with a certain preceptor, then it needs to be addressed and you need to ask her to go over the evaluation and point out specific things that you can improve on.

the thing that raises huge red flags is this:

i am tempted to fake the evaluation form and hand in a forged signature copy and that thought scares me – why should i be dishonest and risk being thrown out of school and ruining everything when i feel the course and the people i should be looking up to failed, not me?

fraud and cheating :nono:

sissiesmama, ASN, RN · Jun 22, 2008

Hello- I would like to respond to even just one aspect. Please think before you decide to alter your evaluation. I have been a nurse for 17 years and I have seen things like that happen. If you get caught for something like that in nsg school, you will probably get disiplined. If you don't get caught, it will give you a chance to get in trouble after you pass boards. If you don't get penalized in school, and you pass boards, it will be easier to do while working. This is not something that the BON would look upon with favor. and if you get caught, you will have to appear in front of them and I would never want to have to do that. By the way, I'm not accusing you, I'm just saying if you get away with it school, no matter how small, the temptation will be there. Signing off meds or tx you didn't give or do, ect. I have seen nurses that got caught false documenting a tx or something simple, and then every time there is a question about something, their name comes up. As hard as you work in msg school, is that the way you want to start off?

Anne, RNC:banghead:

elkpark · Jun 22, 2008

The expectations you're describing sound pretty typical, and accelerated programs (which is what you mentioned you were in in another post) are v. demanding and fast-paced, and expect the students to be v. self-directed about getting their needs (educational and otherwise) met. I agree with the comments the others have made, and would add that you said that your preceptorship was in leadership & management -- assisting floor nurses with tasks, even tasks that require an RN license, was not what you were there to do. As ukstudent asked, what were your clinical objectives for this rotation/preceptorship (you must have had them), and what did you do to make sure that you accomplished them? If I were precepting a nursing student who was very close to graduating, I would expect that student to understand and communicate to me her/his clinical objectives and be proactive and independent about making sure s/he was accomplishing in the preceptorship what s/he needed to and, yes, if I didn't see the student doing that, I would give that student a poor evaluation. At this point in your education, it's not the preceptor's job to take you by the hand and show you what you need to do.

Best wishes; I hope you'll be able to work something out to salvage the situation. :)

Music in My Heart · Jun 22, 2008

the thing that raises huge red flags is this:
i am tempted to fake the evaluation form and hand in a forged signature copy...
fraud and cheating

not to mention that forgery is a crime.

hardworking woman · Jun 23, 2008

This is what I would do...
1) DO NOT FAKE THE EVALUATION!! If you get caught you will not only be removed from the program but quite possibly prohibited from ever coming back to that school. This is akin to cheating and very frowned upon.
2)Go to your preceptor when she has a few minutes, sit down with your evaluation, ask her where you went wrong, why you received the marks you did and is there anything you can do to change that. Who knows, maybe she didn't actually read the form and thought that 1 was the best number? You deserve an explanation for such a poor grade and also deserve a chance to rectify if possible. Sometimes a polite "what the heck happenend?" is all that is needed.
Best of luck

Thank you RnNurse, good, sound, calm, unbiased and gentle advise. I will go speak to her and not take myself too seriously and I am no longer tempted to cheat - I have never compromised my honesty and integrity and don't plan to now. Thanks again and all the best to you.

hardworking woman · Jun 23, 2008

i tend to agree with ukstudent ....... maybe i'm not getting the whole picture here, something just seems to be missing from this whole story, maybe we just need more details. if you're having trouble with a certain preceptor, then it needs to be addressed and you need to ask her to go over the evaluation and point out specific things that you can improve on.
the thing that raises huge red flags is this:
fraud and cheating

are you for real? take it easy tiger it was a feeling which past. ever feel anything?

hardworking woman · Jun 23, 2008

The expectations you're describing sound pretty typical, and accelerated programs (which is what you mentioned you were in in another post) are v. demanding and fast-paced, and expect the students to be v. self-directed about getting their needs (educational and otherwise) met. I agree with the comments the others have made, and would add that you said that your preceptorship was in leadership & management -- assisting floor nurses with tasks, even tasks that require an RN license, was not what you were there to do. As ukstudent asked, what were your clinical objectives for this rotation/preceptorship (you must have had them), and what did you do to make sure that you accomplished them? If I were precepting a nursing student who was very close to graduating, I would expect that student to understand and communicate to me her/his clinical objectives and be proactive and independent about making sure s/he was accomplishing in the preceptorship what s/he needed to and, yes, if I didn't see the student doing that, I would give that student a poor evaluation. At this point in your education, it's not the preceptor's job to take you by the hand and show you what you need to do.
Best wishes; I hope you'll be able to work something out to salvage the situation. :)

You can't communicate your objectives to someone who wouldn't even take the list of objectives my teacher wrote out for us. She told me things about what she was doing, how things work and the nature of problems there - but she did not want to hear from me and I do not think she is preceptor material. It was all take and no give - no genuine communication allowed. Thank you for your good wishes.

elkpark · Jun 23, 2008

You can't communicate your objectives to someone who wouldn't even take the list of objectives my teacher wrote out for us. She told me things about what she was doing, how things work and the nature of problems there - but she did not want to hear from me and I do not think she is preceptor material. It was all take and no give - no genuine communication allowed. Thank you for your good wishes.

And what did you do during the five weeks of your preceptorship to address this issue with her and/or your instructor, and make sure that you were getting what you needed from the experience (or, at least, make your instructor aware that you were having problems doing so)?

GGT1 · Jun 23, 2008

"when everyone around you is mean and trying to fail you, it is time to look at yourself."

omg this is my motto... with everything!!! is everyone being rude? look at myself. is everyone being mean? look at myself. it can't be everyone else... it must be myself.

we love to blame others, but it is time that we start being accountable for ourselves.