Nursing shortages, Baby boomers and the immigrant nurse Part 2
It has been a couple of weeks since we reviewed the ongoing poll about foreign trained nurses in the USA and the trend towards blaming immigrant nurses for taking the jobs which should or should not belong to American Nurses.
The opinion is almost equally divided between the main two options - please review poll thread for further information.
Now what we really should investigate is when we say 'foreign nurses' who are we really referring to? Are we referring to Green Card holder? Or are we referring to foreign born and trained RN's? Is there a difference I hear you contemplating? Well I could predict that this would alter the opinions because those who are finger pointing may well have Green Cards themselves, even though they have probably lived for most of their lives in the USA, or have parents who remain legal Aliens and not US citizens.
Nobody complains about legal Aliens who are not RN's in the same way yet the majority and I say majority loosely because it is my opinion that almost 100% of nurses in the US are either 'legal aliens' or are already 'US Citizens, the exception these days are some Canadians who are still on working visas.
I am pretty sure somebody will prove me wrong, but hey that is the fun of these blog's and hopefully initiates some good conversation in a safe environment.
It is also my belief that the ones who criticize have no to little complaints against British, Canadian, Australian, and any other English as a first language speaking RN? The main complaints seem to be against Filipinos, Indian, and any RN who has an accent. Ok now I will bow my head and wait!
So I leave you with a thought If you are a Green Card Holder who trains in the US to be a RN, are you taking the jobs from the American Nurses or is this acceptable????
This topic has been going on for 40 years. Hospitals are always CRYING shortage. It is shameful to have so many new AMERICAN grads unable to find jobs. If you are here on a temporary visa, then it should be immediately terminated if you are in a area where there are so many nurses looking for jobs. No new visas should be granted unless it is to areas where jobs are needed and those that are here on visas MUST KNOW that these visas are only good for certain periods of time, NOT FOREVER !!!!
everyone complians about the shortage but they dont give more grants to students or increase salaries/working conditions to retain current nurses. a little backwards
In regard to board testing: According a friend, a foreign-born nurse, the programming, in some other countries, is inclined toward toward the standardized testing in the U.S. That might help explain the testing acumen. But I remember very clearly that hands-on felt very different than theory, add cultural differences and it was quite different. And I agree and have seen that very heavy accents as well as nurses speaking foreign languages while at work - can be very difficult for patients as well as co-workers. As for a nursing shortage, if it really exists, making the LPN transition smoother (less expensive, less time consuming) would go a long way toward solving that problem.
This is really an interesting debate.Really are we worried about immigrant nurses taking our jobs!Everyone is in pursuit of happiness and we as human beings are looking for better opportunities.The same applies to immigrant nurses,they are here for better economic opportunities for their families.Again lets not forget here ,they are here because there was a nursing shortage and our Government decided to give Visas to these nurses to fill in our gaps.Yes now that there is a recession ,there is hiring Freezes ,although there is shortage for nurses still but the management is not willing to take any chances yet.So we need to take a step back and analyse why we are in this situation and not blame immigrant nurses for our jobs.
If there are reciprocal agreements for American nurses to freely immigrate to their country and not be discriminated against for their poor language skills and being whatever race that American might be then fine let's all pursue happiness and wealth. You know real jobs not just volunteering which many already do. But lets not be forced out of our jobs with nowhere to go.
BTW there is no shortage of nurses in the USA but there really is in the very countries that most H1B visa holders come from. Seems like maybe we are creating their shortages.
Those newgrads are just like you when you started your nursing career. Most with the same passion to care for clients as you do.yet they are now being turned away.please keep that in mind.
Yes, there are shortages in countries for which the H1B visas come from and i understand your statement being you may be causing the shortages, however I think many persons dont understand that the countries which we come from is the cause of their nursing shortage...
I am a Jamaican and currently reside in Jamaica as a nursing student graduate however I will be migrating to another country to practice, not because i hate/dislike/or i'm living a hard life here in Jamaica but because of how nurses are treated...
We are overworked, underpaid and for me i have taken a student loan for my education (as i love nursing and was ADAMANT that despite the cost this is the profession i was meant for)
My student loan costs 2,000,000.000 (2million jamaican) we are being asked to repay 35,000 jamaican monthly and our salary is $48,000.00 jamaican the MOST at private hospitals as public hospitals pay less....my bus fare and lunch money monthly is $12000 jamaican (and this is with TIGHT BUDGETING) sooo
salary = 48000 - 35000 = 13,000 - 12,000 = 1000 and that cannot buy me and my family a burger king meal....
we rallied for a raise in salary, they (the government) approved it in 2003 did not pay us and then last yeat said they cound not afford to, this year they raised our pay by 5000 which is included in the salary amount i stated above [so can you imagine what they were paying us]
I live comfortably with my parents but i would love to live on my own and own my own house and car etc.. I cannot afford that here hence the reason why i MUST leave...keeping in mind that if persons seeing you live too comfortably they assume your rich and rob you...so for safer living, comfort and doing what i love...i CANNOT practice as a nurse in Jamaica.
Understand that we are trained well, we make something out of nothing...in SOME AND REPEAT SOME HOSPITALS there is water shortage hence there is no water and we are expected to stay at work OFCOURSE and work..dress wounds, find ways and means of cleansing or hands so we can eat unable to use the bathroom because no water is available to flush tooilets...most of my classmates dont want to work under these conditions as it affects your confidence, its frustrating...The jamaican government doesnt treat nurses well thus nurses migrate for a better life
I am a Green card holder who came to the US with my US citizen husband and kids. I am foreign educated as an RN an have a BSN in my country, and like any RN in this country I too sat for the Boards, I have a license that enables me to practice and says I am competent to so, and green card that says I am a legal alien able to work for any employer in this country. I don't believe I am taking anything from anyone, in fact I believe it is an asset to have people that can provide cultural competent care to increasing diverse populations in the US. This sounds like ethnocentrism to me, let's try an be a little more objective, a lot less judgemental and avoid stereotyping.
Yes, I think culturally competent care is very important. You imply, however, that because you are not American born, that you have a higher skill in all areas of culturally competent care. No, it's just that you can just easily deliver more skilled CC care to those who come from YOUR background. You know just as much (or little) about cultures not your own as any other ethnic or nonethnic nurse you work with.
So, I would appreciate if you would stop stereotyping natural born Americans as being less skilled in CC care just because they didn't come from somewhere else. In fact, foreign-born nurses who come from more homogenous countries may have a bit of an issue with the sheer number of different cultures that American born nurses have been exposed to since the day they were born.
And I agree and have seen that very heavy accents as well as nurses speaking foreign languages while at work - can be very difficult for patients as well as co-workers.
It's funny you mention that. Most people would automatically assume that the accentless American is the one with the issue with the accent. Funnily enough, it's often two accented nurses from different regions of the world that have just as much trouble understanding each other as the accentless American and the accented nurse.
Another odd story about people from the same country: a CNA I worked with was talking in her own language with another patient from the same country. She whispered to me in English, "I can't understand a word she's saying because she's speaking a dialect I don't know!"
At least the US has something going for us, as big a country as we are. Regional dialects are few and far between and less "different" from standard English. In other countries--even Western European nations--the regional dialects are numerous and VERY different from the standard national language. My husband is a first generation Western European who is fluent in both English and his parents' native language (accentless in both), and when he talks with other immigrants from his country but a different region, he often has trouble understanding what they are saying due to the dialect they are using!
This is a very interesting debate. However we must be careful about the language we use when talking about immigration and the NON-US trained nurse. I hate the word foreign - because it conjours up negative representation, both to the US and non-us nursing staff who may be going to the US to further their nursing careers. However I will say this good english both written and oral is essential and pivotal to good patient care. It can be even dangerous if a nurse who doesnt understand or have good English skills to deliver nursing care that is safe. I mean we dont want situations - regardless of where the nurse comes from that patient's lives are put in jeopardy because of inadequate and below par English skills of the registered practitoner.
this is an interesting debate and really shows people who happen to be nurses for their own personal opinionated selves. americans think that they dont have an accent...where did that come from, and speaking english, maybe the americans should insist on an abbreviated free world where everyone uses letters for everything in health care....not safe. as for coming to america as a nurse and not having to take the n-clex another fallacy, everyone who is a nurse in the states takes the n-clex regardless of who they are. i speak english perfectly well, english is what i speak where i come from, not americanised english, so sometimes even after being here for a long time i have to ask what the american nurse means when they are speaking english. oh and the nurse who said get back to your own country...you must be an american indian....you know those people who this country belonged to in the first place, other than that your family has emigrated to america from somewhere....
lee1
754 Posts
This topic has been going on for 40 years. Hospitals are always CRYING shortage. It is shameful to have so many new AMERICAN grads unable to find jobs. If you are here on a temporary visa, then it should be immediately terminated if you are in a area where there are so many nurses looking for jobs. No new visas should be granted unless it is to areas where jobs are needed and those that are here on visas MUST KNOW that these visas are only good for certain periods of time, NOT FOREVER !!!!