Nursing shortages, Baby boomers and the immigrant nurse Part 2
It has been a couple of weeks since we reviewed the ongoing poll about foreign trained nurses in the USA and the trend towards blaming immigrant nurses for taking the jobs which should or should not belong to American Nurses.
The opinion is almost equally divided between the main two options - please review poll thread for further information.
Now what we really should investigate is when we say 'foreign nurses' who are we really referring to? Are we referring to Green Card holder? Or are we referring to foreign born and trained RN's? Is there a difference I hear you contemplating? Well I could predict that this would alter the opinions because those who are finger pointing may well have Green Cards themselves, even though they have probably lived for most of their lives in the USA, or have parents who remain legal Aliens and not US citizens.
Nobody complains about legal Aliens who are not RN's in the same way yet the majority and I say majority loosely because it is my opinion that almost 100% of nurses in the US are either 'legal aliens' or are already 'US Citizens, the exception these days are some Canadians who are still on working visas.
I am pretty sure somebody will prove me wrong, but hey that is the fun of these blog's and hopefully initiates some good conversation in a safe environment.
It is also my belief that the ones who criticize have no to little complaints against British, Canadian, Australian, and any other English as a first language speaking RN? The main complaints seem to be against Filipinos, Indian, and any RN who has an accent. Ok now I will bow my head and wait!
So I leave you with a thought If you are a Green Card Holder who trains in the US to be a RN, are you taking the jobs from the American Nurses or is this acceptable????
I really don't think you should be discriminating between permanent residents ( green card holders) and citizens. I'm a green card holder and I'm not going anywhere hence the word permanent in the name permanent resident. I have as much to add to this country as any "citizen" who just happened to be born here. I don't think you really understand the concept of what a green card is. It is a path to citizenship. People who receive green cards are intending to stay and commit to being americans. We already can't vote despite paying taxes (taxation without choice of respresentation hmm sounds familiar)
Is citizen vs resident going to be the new black vs white?
What are you talking about DISCRIMINATE??? Are you for real??? This is the CODE from the FEDERAL DEPARTMENT OF LABOR!! I find it interesting how defensive some people are about this. Do you really think that a Non-citizen of the USA should be able to BUMP a USA citizen from a job?? Excuse me (I mean no disrespect) but that is Dellusional and self serving thinking. The Rules are the Rules. Sorry if American Nurses need jobs, and if Foreign (visa, green card) nurses are taking them up, that MUST be changed.
You can "feel" and "believe" anything you want - never the less a permanent resident, green card, visa nurse are all included in the language of the Federal Labor Law regarding this matter. If a USA citizen can fill the job, a non-citizen cannot have the job - that is the LAW. I do believe that it is being violated and this is part of the problem for USA citizen nurses. Look up United States Department of Labor, and type in the search about this. These are the facts. No offense intended, but I hope that you are not occupying a job that could be filled by a USA citizen.
. No offense intended, but I hope that you are not occupying a job that could be filled by a USA citizen.
Actually offense is taken. I have lived here for over 10 years I have paid my share of taxes. I was trained in the US. If there is a US citizen that is MORE competent at their job than I am I sure they would already have it.
Do you even know the history behind why you are a citizen when you are born in the US. Before slavery persons born in the USA were not considered citizens. After slavery was abolished there was a movement to deport the now free slaves as they could not longer be exploited and in the eyes of those in the movement they no longer served their purpose.
I get the impression that your not even a nurse yet but a student frightened about losing her theoretical job to the boogeyman.
Despite what the letter of the law may say no politician would ever suggest enforcing the law as written.
I'm not sure you even understand what a permanent resident green card holder is. We are not considered "foreigners" we are considered lawful legal residents of the United States of America.
"The Immigration and Nationality Act prohibits employers (when hiring, discharging, or recruiting or referring for a fee) from discriminating because of national origin against U.S. citizens, U.S. nationals, and authorized aliens or discriminating because of citizenship status against U.S. citizens, U.S. nationals, and the following classes of a aliens with work authorization: permanent residents, temporary residents (that is, individuals who have gone through the legalization program), refugees, and asylees."
It's right there and green card holders/asylees/refugees are not to be discriminated against by law...my husband is a British citizen and he's hoping to go into teaching. This is his home now. In 3 years he will be allowed to become a U.S. citizen. But is he not supposed to be able to work until then? When we move to Britain for a few years, since I am his wife, I will be afforded the same privileges as a UK/EU citizen in regards to work and I hope to continue to work in NICU. Should I be forced to give up my career because I'm in another country?
I think you're being very narrow-minded. If my husband was a nurse and wanted to work here, you're essentially saying that he has to wait 3 years until he becomes a citizen, when it's magically okay to start working. that's pretty ludicrous I hope someone shows you some compassion in your lifetime...
B. Procedures. In cases where no qualified citizens are available to fill a competitive service position, DHS may request from the Office of Personnel Management (OPM) approval to remove the position from the competitive service and fill it with an eligible non-citizen. The request should contain thorough justification as to why a U.S. citizen cannot be hired to fill the position (including a detailed description of their efforts to recruit qualified U.S. citizens).
Agencies are permitted to hire non-citizens only when there are no qualified citizens available.
B. Procedures. In cases where no qualified citizens are available to fill a competitive service position, DHS may request from the Office of Personnel Management (OPM) approval to remove the position from the competitive service and fill it with an eligible non-citizen. The request should contain thorough justification as to why a U.S. citizen cannot be hired to fill the position (including a detailed description of their efforts to recruit qualified U.S. citizens).
Agencies are permitted to hire non-citizens only when there are no qualified citizens available.
whew, that link you provided is from the Dept of Agriculture...non-U.S. citizens are not allowed to work the government in nearly all cases. But healthcare isn't like in the UK where the government runs the NHS. I think you're a bit confused...
Do you know that as a green card holder/permanent resident you are eligible to serve in the military. If we take your weak interuptation of the law into effect we would have to kick many people out of the military to give US citizens some of those good solider jobs.
Wewon. Your arguments are weak at best. At worst someone is going to link your online persona with your real identity and job prospects may become even more limited. Your going to be working along side alot of people in this industry who are not natural born citizens and your pov might not always be appreciated.
Specializes in ICU, PIC, BURN UNIT, PEDS, MED SURG, PSY.
I think there is a nursing shortage but I don't know who is at the bedside taking care of the patients. My feeling is that they're laying off more experienced nurses to hire nurses or others who cost hospitals less.
I hire the person mosty suited for the position. I don't care what color or nationality they are.... meet the expectations and qualifications is what I ask for.
I hope someone shows you some compassion in your lifetime...
tothepointeLVN, LVN
2,246 Posts
I really don't think you should be discriminating between permanent residents ( green card holders) and citizens. I'm a green card holder and I'm not going anywhere hence the word permanent in the name permanent resident. I have as much to add to this country as any "citizen" who just happened to be born here. I don't think you really understand the concept of what a green card is. It is a path to citizenship. People who receive green cards are intending to stay and commit to being americans. We already can't vote despite paying taxes (taxation without choice of respresentation hmm sounds familiar)
Is citizen vs resident going to be the new black vs white?