I have spent the last 4 years trying to get into nursing school. I had to jump through many hoops and work really hard but I finally made it. While I was going through this process I met many incredulous folks who thought I was a slacker or something. Over and over people will ask "Why did you have such a hard time getting into nursing school when there's a nursing shortage."
I've tried explaining this until I'm blue in the face but people don't seem to get it. I'm not even sure I get it. Anyway, can any of you think of some way I can explain this so that people will understand?
At my school the minimum requirements are an overall 2.5 GPA with nothing less than a C in core classes (anatomy, physiology, microbiology, english, speech, psych1 and psych42). Then all students who meet the requirements are put into a lottery with names drawn randomly. I'm not sure how random it really is and there's no wait list. There's only room for about 10% of the applicants. So far about 15% of our class has failed out of the program.
We also have a problem finding qualified instructors.
Specializes in Gerontological, cardiac, med-surg, peds.
Hi Vicky,
So do you all have to provide an explanation as to why applicants were rejected?
It's a totally objective process (points accrual), in which the instructors play no direct part. The Allied Health Coordinator at our community college is in charge of this process. The prospective students find out if they "made it" or not when the letters are sent out (ours were just sent out last week, for fall admission, as a matter of fact). If the student did not gain a seat, it was simply due to not having enough points. And, the process, is extremely competitive (think 400 applicants, only 42 seats). Again, we have no part in this process - this is the domain of the Allied Health Coordinator.
Not only that,once you get in the program the instructors are just mean. Well mean is not the right word, but they don't seem to want the students to pass. Im only talking about my school and I know other program are nices to their students. In our program,you can not even review what you did wrong in the exam. You can only see your score and thats it. How would we know what we answered right or wrong then? I think our school is like this because it's being run by ex-millitary instructors. We don't have any sayings, whatever they say you must do or you will fail. Our class average right now is a C and scores just keep going down. By the end of semester 1/3 of the class will fail. How would they compensate with the nursing shortage if they don't even want their students to pass? Thank God I'm still passing the class but I know few classmates that are really ver depress. Even though Im passing the class, I am depress also.
"As for exams, I think everyone has problems with questions. Yes, as mentioned above, some questions are poorly written. Problems also stem from the fact that nursing is a complicated art. A math question is simple, the answer not open to interpretation. On nursing exams there can be "grey" areas in questions. We just have to live with it. If you study and work hard you'll pass. If you fail, don't blame the questions. 'The fault lies not in their questions but in ourselves.'"
Unless you have experienced the questions at my program in particular, I believe that you are making an unwise assumption. Riddle me this (an actual question from two tests ago):
Your patient has been newly diagnosed with hypertension. In teaching him or her about food choices that are correct you tell them to:
a) stop eating dill pickles
b) eliminate all potato chips
c) reduce the servings of sweets
d) avoid hot dogs
I chose this question because it is typical; not the best and not the worst.
And I am not failing my program. I actually have one of the highest averages in our class of sixtysomething. But, it means very little to me in reality because I know that the tests I am taking are doing precious little to increase my chances of passing the NCLEX.
I will be a new grad shortly. I want to be a nursing instructor. Someday. But right now, I need a couple of years experience and a few more years of more education so that I can be credible in the calssroom and on the clinical floor.
I had this GREAT instructor my first and second semesters of nursing. She was the epitome of what I want my nursing practice to look like. I wasn't so hot in my third semester Peds and OB. I had to re-do thrid semester b/c I was being stupid in a no stuupid zone and re-do fourth b/c of health problems. The largest numbers of failures and drop outs typically comes in the third semester. I am not sure of the attrition rate but I think it might be in the neighborhood of forty percent maybe?
The class that I will graduate are a group of bright talented people who will be an asset to what ever hospital they choose to work at. I think that our faculty and staff are awesome Nurses, and instructors and people, and I hope to one day join them.
All of the nursing schools that I know of in Tx. base their admittance upon GPA scores.
I'm in Texas too. The school I was just accepted into uses a point system with a combination of grades in certain classes (but not all), pre-regs completed and the HESI score. GPA isn't even factored into their decision at all.
The school I applied to had 900 applicants for 170 positions.
Wow! apparently there are very different criteria used in community colleges thoughout the country. I agree GPA is not the end all, but at the same time should be a consideration, including test scores on entrance tests, and prereqs completion. I wonder why a lottery?
What are the factors that predict success in nursing? What ever they are, they should be the primary consideration of educators. We want to see as many nurses come through our schools successfully if we really want to address this shortage!
I know of at least one community college in my area that uses a lottery system. All students who meet the minimum GPA (I think it is 2.75) minimum Compass scores and have at least a C on their pre-reqs are put into the lottery system. So it is very easy for a 4.0 student with a Master's Degree in Organic Chemistry to be rejected in favor of a 2.75 student straight out of highschool.
In our rural area, LPN's are core staffing because there are so few RNs. They carry the same workload, and become trained on the job for IV therapy. They start their own sites and hang all their fluids. There is a clear training mandate from NYS ED. that LPNs collect data, RNs assess and write the POC. LPNs are prohibited from giving IV bolus meds or blood products and anything but basic site monitoring of PICC or CVC lines. At our clinical site, LPNs work just about everywhere in the hospital. In the nearest big city, Rochester, the LPN job market is wide open for just about any specialty they care to train in. The biggest healthcare employer is so concerned about retention, that they offer significant tuition assistance and the opportunity for LPNs to work in specialty units of their choice, with a few exceptions like OB or NICU. (On the premise that if nurses are happy where they work, with a manageable workload, they will stay). Our applicants must have a high school diploma or GED. Many are older adults seeking a profession after being in the workplace for many years, often in CNA positions or minimum wage jobs, many are single parents. They are required to take a pre-entrance screening exam which tests basic reading comprehension and math skills. That mean score generates either the application process, including interview or a letter of regret. To address the inherent difficulties in writing test questions, (in fact, I had to take an ed course that taught you how to write them..) i.e. standardized multiple choice...being complex, and difficult to keep objective...you must 1st KNOW THE RIGHT ANSWER!!!!!!, then have to include a "distractor", then include 2 answer options that may be chosen if the student has an inadequate knowledge base, or makes a common "assumption", so I rely exclusively on the test bank that comes with all our text books and REFUSE to write my own. AND STILL the students argue when I review the exam with the class. Our students must pass each course with a 75%. One of my old students announced to her coworkers.. I wasn't mean, I was tough. And I am proud of that. Our students see such poor practice. They are too often told by staff "this isn't the right way to do this, but I have so much to do I gotta do it this way", or "I know, I shoulda worn gloves..." Too many of our students do poorly in class or clinical because they are also struggling to work FULL TIME!!!!! and class is desperately needed sleep time... Because of the healthcare crisis, our patient acuity is greater than ever before. Our pts. are sicker with much more complex care need than ever before. Budget cut positions (or in fairness to Nursing Administration be unable to hire more)? So lay off housekeeping, nurses do floors, lay off lab techs, nurses draw blood, lay off pharmacy, nurse supervisors dispense meds, lay off RT, nurses do Nebs....and as our workload and responsibility has grown, so must the education. Why do so many of us feel we are at the breaking point?
Specializes in home & public health, med-surg, hospice.
We've had the same problems at my school with not being allowed to review the test questions, although the review with the individual student is ultimately determined by the instructor. What I mean is the school does allow the instructor to use her own discernment re. how in-depth, etc. she/he wishes to review the items with the student.
The reason why it came to this is b/c there were persons who were cheating. They'd review the questions then right down all the questions with the answers and pass them on to the next group of students.
This in turn has not only resulted in our not being allowed to review the tests in great detail and learn from our mistakes but it has also caused a problem in that now new questions have to be developed for each new test. I didn't think this would be such a problem. However, it limits the instructors from being able to use a lot of the questions which have been "tried & true" in the past - tests that were proven statisically appropriate. This is where you come up with having to resort to using questions that are, for lack of a better way to put it, "questionable."
I see it as an unfortunate catch 22 for both the student & the instructor.
Chadash had mentioned that their school was 1st come-1st serve. That surprises me too. My school bases their selection on an extensive interview process, as well as # of pre-reqs completed, and grades.
We had over 120 apply, 47 accepted, and 33 remain. We are currently in Gerontology, we still have Med-Surg 2 this summer before the year is up. At the rate we're going I expect our class to be 27 before it is all over. Which is funny because they can only accept 33 in the 2nd year program and they have already sent out acceptance letters to people who will be in next years 2nd year program, but are not in our class.
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abbythetabby
110 Posts
At my school the minimum requirements are an overall 2.5 GPA with nothing less than a C in core classes (anatomy, physiology, microbiology, english, speech, psych1 and psych42). Then all students who meet the requirements are put into a lottery with names drawn randomly. I'm not sure how random it really is and there's no wait list. There's only room for about 10% of the applicants. So far about 15% of our class has failed out of the program.
We also have a problem finding qualified instructors.