I have spent the last 4 years trying to get into nursing school. I had to jump through many hoops and work really hard but I finally made it. While I was going through this process I met many incredulous folks who thought I was a slacker or something. Over and over people will ask "Why did you have such a hard time getting into nursing school when there's a nursing shortage."
I've tried explaining this until I'm blue in the face but people don't seem to get it. I'm not even sure I get it. Anyway, can any of you think of some way I can explain this so that people will understand?
One of our biggest problems here in CA is that there are a lack of clinical training facitlites. This severely reduces the number of students that programs can accept.
Is it that they don't have the facilities or they don't have the clinical instructors? Just curious.
My school,(one of the top ranked in the country) we had over 250 applicants, only 23 got in. Lowest GPA they could accept was 3.9 because of the demand to get in, but extreme shortage of teachers. One staff member was heard saying " how do you tell someone with a 3.8 they are not good enough to get in?" It's rough all the way around.
My school,(one of the top ranked in the country) we had over 250 applicants, only 23 got in. Lowest GPA they could accept was 3.9 because of the demand to get in, but extreme shortage of teachers. One staff member was heard saying " how do you tell someone with a 3.8 they are not good enough to get in?" It's rough all the way around.
This is exactly what I mean, (the note above).
We are going to have very smart nurses if we only allow people with GPA's of 3.9.
Question? should GPA be the only factor in getting accepted to any nursing school? I say, no.
Is it that they don't have the facilities or they don't have the clinical instructors? Just curious.
Kris
In my opinion and I in school now in a MSN degree program for Nursing education. It's both = Facilities that do allow nursing students are swamped by all the schools wanting clinical experience. There just isn't enough clinical time to go around. I know of one school that has night clinicals just so they can get their students some experience.
Also, the lack of clinical instructors and nursing edcuators in general, is a big problem as well. Too many nursing educators are leaving the schools, some due to retirement age, others due to the poor salary for educators.
Specializes in Gerontological, cardiac, med-surg, peds.
In my opinion and I in school now in a MSN degree program for Nursing education. It's both = Facilities that do allow nursing students are swamped by all the schools wanting clinical experience. There just isn't enough clinical time to go around. I know of one school that has night clinicals just so they can get their students some experience.
Also, the lack of clinical instructors and nursing edcuators in general, is a big problem as well. Too many nursing educators are leaving the schools, some due to retirement age, others due to the poor salary for educators.
This is a good discussion, more please !!
Wayne
My workload during the past 4 years of being a nursing educator in an ADN setting has been phenomenal, much more intense than anything I encountered as a staff nurse. I have probably averaged 70-80 hours/ week. Holidays and weekends have been consumed in grading clinical papers, preparing or updating lectures, or constructing good test items. I, too, am tired and need a change. My salary is about the same as our new ADN graduates. Please don't get me wrong - I love to teach (it's in my blood!) and I love interacting with (most) students.
I'm sorry, I have top agree with Wayne, you can't judge a person's grade on English, Psych, and A&P and determine who will make a good nurse. Some people took their pre-req's one class at a time and didn't work or have a family. Some took 15 credits, worked full time and raised 3 kids all at the same time. Understandably, the first example would have an easier time making a 4.0 than the second, but does that mean he/she will be a better nurse?
The school that I attend has a first-come-first-serve and the students get weaned out significantly in the first semester of clinicals. That isn't a bad thing. If you can't calculate med dosages and drip rates, you shouldn't be in the profession! However, I really think the first-come-first-serve method brings out the most well-rounded individuals--after graduation. I've met lots of over-achievers who are horrible at interacting with people and don't have the common sense to come in out of the rain. I've met underachievers in the same boat, mind you, but grades and test scores aren't everything.
Specializes in Gerontological, cardiac, med-surg, peds.
This is exactly what I mean, (the note above).
We are going to have very smart nurses if we only allow people with GPA's of 3.9.
Question? should GPA be the only factor in getting accepted to any nursing school? I say, no.
Anyone?
Wayne
Interesting question and what a great discussion. We use a screening tool specific to the health sciences, the Health Occupations Basic Entrance Test (HOBET). There are other screening tools that programs may use as well, such as the NLN or NET. We screen the first 70 or so applicants. Then we use a point system to chose the 42 who will comprise the next ADN class (points are awarded according to the applicant's GPA and prior college courses taken). Last year we had close to 400 applicants for our 42 slots. We don't do personal interviews to screen applicants or require "compositions" as to why the student wants to become a nurse, etc., because these are way too subjective and too easily contested. The point system has to be renewed each year for each unsuccessful applicant and there is no waiting list.
We are in the process of expanding our programs (first ADN, then LPN) and this has required considerable work and preparation. First, we had to petition and receive permission from the NCBON to expand our programs (a very laborous process). Then we had to renovate our building and classroom space, a very large and expensive undertaking. We also need more clinical sites - not easy, as there is so much competition among the schools of nursing in the area. We will be forced to have some clinicals in the evenings and on the weekends. And, last but not least, and most daunting, we must find new instructors, not only for the classroom but also for the clinical settings. We are running ads and follow every lead we find, but applicants are few and far between It hasn't helped, either, the new educational requirements for NC nursing faculty (starting in 2015, all nursing faculty, classroom or adjunct, must have a master's degree).
You're right, it is! The community college in my town has a wait list (about 3 years long) based strictly on when your last pre-req. was completed.
That's how it is for the program I'm trying to get into, though your position on the waitlist is decided by the order of application. Ughh........so frustrating. I'm taking time off at Ohio State to finish my prereqs for the nursing program at Columbus State so I can get a spot on the waitlist and finish my BA at OSU in the meantime. How frustrating.
I did not realize that there were any schools who were strictly "first come, first served". That sounds like a recipe for disaster.
Our school had 336 applicants. Out of that, the top 105 were chosen (GPA of 3.5 or better and SAT of 1050 or better). Out of those 105 less than half of us are left. We also have some key instructors who believe in "fair" game. . They are far from "fair". With a few exceptions, the people who failed out were all excellent test takers and good risks for the NCLEX as well as the profession in general. These same instructors choose to write their own test questions. As a former English major and a writer...I can tell you that I have seen some sentences that came directly out of the belly of sentence he!!. A waste. And a shame.
I'm a very-soon-to-be-graduate from Phillips Beth Israel SON in NYC. I was one of 100 or so selected out of over 700 applicant 2 yrs ago. Our attrition rate is very low -- nowhere near the 50% you mention. From what I've seen the criterea for admission to the school are diverse. GPA is important but the NLN admissions exam, life history and application essay are also crucial. We've got a well balanced class of new & recent HS grads and 2nd career folks like myself. The school's grads are considered highly by NYC hospitals and our NCLEX pass rate has consistantly been over 90%. I think other schools need to look past GPAs and SATs and at the motivations of applicant and what they can bring to the profession. First come first served is absurd! Its a lazy way out of an important responsibility -- selecting those who will be the next generation of nurses.
As for exams, I think everyone has problems with questions. Yes, as mentioned above, some questions are poorly written. Problems also stem from the fact that nursing is a complicated art. A math question is simple, the answer not open to interpretation. On nursing exams there can be "grey" areas in questions. We just have to live with it. If you study and work hard you'll pass. If you fail, don't blame the questions. "The fault lies not in their questions but in ourselves."
Specializes in Endocrine (Diabetes), Pediatric Psych.
This is exactly what I mean, (the note above).
We are going to have very smart nurses if we only allow people with GPA's of 3.9.
Question? should GPA be the only factor in getting accepted to any nursing school? I say, no.
Anyone?
Wayne
No, no, and no again! I mean, you have a person who has a 2.9 GPA simply because they had one bad semester, but their heart is truly in it for the long haul, and you have your 4.0 GPA student that doesn't really give a care other than the $$$ income - which one would you rather have as your nurse?
I'm an RN to be, come 2008, lol, and my school looks at everything - no interview, but they ask you for one heck of an essay - so we get people from all across the board, incoming GPA's of 2.8 to 4.0, and I really could care less as to what it was in the beginning - everyone's heart is in it, so good for them! Grades don't make the nurse in the end, it's the person behind the grades...
Specializes in home & public health, med-surg, hospice.
We don't do personal interviews to screen applicants or require "compositions" as to why the student wants to become a nurse, etc., because these are way too subjective and too easily contested.
Hi Vicky,
So do you all have to provide an explanation as to why applicants were rejected?
It hasn't helped, either, the new educational requirements for NC nursing faculty (starting in 2015, all nursing faculty, classroom or adjunct, must have a master's degree).
. They are far from "fair". With a few exceptions, the people who failed out were all excellent test takers and good risks for the NCLEX as well as the profession in general. These same instructors choose to write their own test questions. As a former English major and a writer...I can tell you that I have seen some sentences that came directly out of the belly of sentence he!!. A waste. And a shame.
SarasotaRN2b
1,164 Posts
Is it that they don't have the facilities or they don't have the clinical instructors? Just curious.
Kris