I have spent the last 4 years trying to get into nursing school. I had to jump through many hoops and work really hard but I finally made it. While I was going through this process I met many incredulous folks who thought I was a slacker or something. Over and over people will ask "Why did you have such a hard time getting into nursing school when there's a nursing shortage."
I've tried explaining this until I'm blue in the face but people don't seem to get it. I'm not even sure I get it. Anyway, can any of you think of some way I can explain this so that people will understand?
You are so correct when you speak of the waiting list with nursing schools these days. So many people out there only see that we have a nursing shortage and do not conect that with the shortage of nursing instructors as well as clinical sites. I am due to graduate from an ADN program in May, and the only way I got into the program was because I am an LPN and had my prereq work completed. For those wanting to enter the program now, it is a 3-4 year waiting list, with all prereq's completed.
I think this is caused partly by how they choose canidates. Instead of choosing those most likely to succeed, they do first come first serve, thus the 50 students dropping to 15.
I respectfully disagree. I was turned down by a university that I had applied to very early. I also have a great GPA and experience as an aide. I did not get in to the program. I also personally know of someone that applied at the last minute with a GPA lower than mine and got accepted. Hmmmmm. Either way, there is a shortage of instructors and every year the prerequisites become more intense. It's really too bad.
I did not realize that there were any schools who were strictly "first come, first served". That sounds like a recipe for disaster.
Our school had 336 applicants. Out of that, the top 105 were chosen (GPA of 3.5 or better and SAT of 1050 or better). Out of those 105 less than half of us are left. We also have some key instructors who believe in "fair" game. . They are far from "fair". With a few exceptions, the people who failed out were all excellent test takers and good risks for the NCLEX as well as the profession in general. These same instructors choose to write their own test questions. As a former English major and a writer...I can tell you that I have seen some sentences that came directly out of the belly of sentence he!!. A waste. And a shame.
One of the schools I applied to: 1600 applicants, narrowed down to 500 (which I was one), then only 130 chosen (I was not). Its a jungle out there!! :smiley_ab
To the OP - Congratulations on finally getting into a program - you'll do fantastic!
Specializes in ER/Tele, Med-Surg, Faculty, Urgent Care.
[ But with an MSN, you can get paid so much more as an advance practice nurse--$80k and up, whereas the average for nurse faculty is only $64K. What nurse in their right mind will take that huge cut in pay, unless they really want to teach? Therein lies the problem.
I am a Family Nurse Practitioner here in Southern New Mexico where the average salary for NP's is around 65K. I was offered 50K as a new grad NP.
I am teaching in a BSN program. New grads that work full time make about $5,000 more then I do teaching 9 months out of the year ( which breaks down to about 36 weeks out of the year that I actually work.) New grads start at $18-20 per hour. Do the math. And I have actually had increases over the four years I have been teaching. My starting salary? a Whopping $30,000 per year!!!!! That is not uncommon as I was offered a position in a city nearby to teach in a BSN program about 2 years ago & again was offered-$32,000 per year. So, yes it is difficult to find experienced faculty. Why do I do it? I am a single parent of an 11 y.o. & I enjoy the time I get to spend with my family: Spring Break, Christmas break, the whole summer. There is not price you can put on that time. I also have flexibility in my job. I can work at home or anywhere there is internet with my laptop & I grade papers where ever I can including waiting rooms /pizza parlors/ outdoors at the park etc. I also have not forgotten the 25+ years of working all those holidays( fighting to get my holidays,eech):angryfire
I also feel I have an obligation to my profession & to this nursing program as I am a graduate of the original program which was then LPN to ADN. If this program had not existed I do not know If I would be where I am now.
Or try this one. In our class we had 50 students, after pediatrics we now have 15.. How is that helping the nursing shortage?
The students said that the finals were nothing like they had expected and not what they were told to expect. The faculty responded with "everything is fair game"
I am thankful to have passed.
Any school that loses 70% of its students over one semester needs to be investigated. This is just not acceptable. Whether the cause is the admission process, the teacher, or the testing, you should not lose so many people. These classes cost a lot of money, and failing people like this is abuse.:angryfire :angryfire :angryfire
The State should look into their continuing accreditation. :devil:
Or try this one. In our class we had 50 students, after pediatrics we now have 15.. How is that helping the nursing shortage?
The students said that the finals were nothing like they had expected and not what they were told to expect. The faculty responded with "everything is fair game"
I am thankful to have passed.
Joeleen,
Nursing schools do not exist to solve the nursing shortage. They exist to make a profit for the university. So, if they can pay their instructors less, and extract entrance fees from more entering students who do not complete the program, they make more profit. Economics 301.
If the faculty are treated with minimum respect, you can logically expect them to treat their students in a similar manner. Some of them will even say that their ideas of "fair game" are "preparing their students for the real world of nursing" because they actually feel they have good reasons to believe that is the way the nursing world works.
Nursing schools do not exist to solve the nursing shortage. They exist to make a profit for the university. So, if they can pay their instructors less, and extract entrance fees from more entering students who do not complete the program, they make more profit. Economics 301.
If the faculty are treated with minimum respect, you can logically expect them to treat their students in a similar manner. Some of them will even say that their ideas of "fair game" are "preparing their students for the real world of nursing" because they actually feel they have good reasons to believe that is the way the nursing world works.
You are absolutely right. Nursing schools DO exist to make a profit for the University. Our community college has appx 40% of it's students on a pre-RN track. Some years it is even higher. As long as they are trying so desperately to get in, there will be no reason to change anything.
I also agree with your assessment concerning instructors with a "fair game" attitude. The few instructors who routinely displace their anger with nursing/life in general on our students with ridiculous test questions have a very "law of the jungle" attitude about Nursing. hmmm....about nearly everything else in life too come to think of it. But, that does not make it right.
I also think that when two to three instructors routinely have 75% to +90% of the students miss their test questions ONLY and consistently...there is a problem. One of these instructors has the majority of lectures in second semester. Which = huge number of failures.
Nursing schools do not exist to solve the nursing shortage. They exist to make a profit for the university. So, if they can pay their instructors less, and extract entrance fees from more entering students who do not complete the program, they make more profit. Economics 301.
If the faculty are treated with minimum respect, you can logically expect them to treat their students in a similar manner. Some of them will even say that their ideas of "fair game" are "preparing their students for the real world of nursing" because they actually feel they have good reasons to believe that is the way the nursing world works.
AMEN
You are absolutely right. Nursing schools DO exist to make a profit for the University. Our community college has appx 40% of it's students on a pre-RN track. Some years it is even higher. As long as they are trying so desperately to get in, there will be no reason to change anything.
I also agree with your assessment concerning instructors with a "fair game" attitude. The few instructors who routinely displace their anger with nursing/life in general on our students with ridiculous test questions have a very "law of the jungle" attitude about Nursing. hmmm....about nearly everything else in life too come to think of it. But, that does not make it right.
I also think that when two to three instructors routinely have 75% to +90% of the students miss their test questions ONLY and consistently...there is a problem. One of these instructors has the majority of lectures in second semester. Which = huge number of failures.
tally the points you gets, each grade is assigned a number, and that way students are "ranked." GPA, experience, other degreees, nothing else matters.
Each semester we lost 25-50% of our class, and it was rapidly replaced with students who had failed previous semesters to get them back in. Then as seniors, we must pass a HESI exit exam during the last few weeks, we get 2 chances to get a 850 or you are booted from the program. They give you a "D" for the semester, and your only option is to return a year later and try the entire semester again. Each year approximately 50-60 students graduate and take boards, and the pass rates for NCLEX have remained 100%.
My school instituted this policy since they lost their accredidation years back for low NCLEX pass rates. IMO, the school wants to do everything they can to keep their wait lists long and keep plenty of people "pre-nursing", it's a huge income for our school. And they keep the program so tough, because they only want people to pass who they are pretty certain will pass the NCLEX. I don't think it has anything to do with helping the nursing shortage, as far as the school is concerned. It is strictly a money-maker for them, and they will do everything they can to keep it that way. It is not in the best interest of the school to admit 90 people each year, pass them all, and move onto 90 more people next year.
It kinda stinks, the needs of the schools are completely opposite of the needs of nursing. They're all in the same boat, not enough teachers, clinical sites, etc., and in the end it does not benefit the school to get large classes through anyway. It's much safer to keep the numbers low, get their NCLEX pass rates, and stay in business with tons of pre-nursing students banging on the doors.
And one RN at clinical recently commented to us that "why worry about the nursing shortage? It keep you new grads as a hot commodity, how would you get your $10,000 sign on bonuses if the market was flooded with tons of new grads every year?"
I have back and forth views on the entire nursing shortage subject. Many of my classmates who did not make it are fighting the admin. I'm not sure if the solution is to make it "easier" to get our of nursing school, I think it should be difficult to be an RN. I worry about the future, and I worry about how RNs are perceived as part of the healthcare team. Of course, I worry about pay rates. I worry about large ratios and unsafe conditions for RNs and clients. So it's complex, and I don't have any strong ideas for a solution. It's certainly been an issue a lot longer than I have been involved in nursing, and I'm sure it will be here much, much longer. Someday I hope to be in a position to do something positive to contribute to solving the problem.
You're right, it is! The community college in my town has a wait list (about 3 years long) based strictly on when your last pre-req. was completed.
A 2.0 was the minimum grade is required in all the pre-req classes for the nursing program. I can't tell you how many students I had in my prereq classes with the attitude of "oh well, all I need is a 2.0" :smackingf
Doesn't matter if you have a 2.0 GPA or a 4.0, your wait time is still the same!
Yeah, I was speaking of community colleges. Your SATs and NETs and GPAs dont make a dent. If the folks ahead of you on the list pass the pre-reqs, that is all it takes. That is ok, but if they want to see more make it to the end of the program, why don't they consider past performance?
I only know about the LPN programs, and the associate program. Now the local colleges are different for the graduate and post graduate nursing degrees, they are merit based.
I wanted to be a LPN though, just more of a niche for me.
Nursing schools do not exist to solve the nursing shortage. They exist to make a profit for the university. So, if they can pay their instructors less, and extract entrance fees from more entering students who do not complete the program, they make more profit. Economics 301.
If the faculty are treated with minimum respect, you can logically expect them to treat their students in a similar manner. Some of them will even say that their ideas of "fair game" are "preparing their students for the real world of nursing" because they actually feel they have good reasons to believe that is the way the nursing world works.
I agree that the school should make money. But that said, you are paying for an education. If 70% of the class fail in one semester, there is a problem. No school should have that sort of fail rate.
In my school if a question had 70% of the class getting it wrong, the question is looked at very carefully, and most of the time thrown out. With that many people getting it wrong, there is something wrong with the question (most of the time).
Look at the school the same way, if 70% of the class fail in one semester, there is something wrong. The school needs to be looked into. If it is only instructor, I'm sorry, they have to go.
Yeah, I was speaking of community colleges. Your SATs and NETs and GPAs dont make a dent. If the folks ahead of you on the list pass the pre-reqs, that is all it takes. That is ok, but if they want to see more make it to the end of the program, why don't they consider past performance?
I only know about the lpn programs, and the associate program. Now the local colleges are different for the graduate and post graduate nursing degrees, they are merit based.
I wanted to be a LPN though, just more of a niche for me.[/quote
I am starting a nursing programm in a communitycollege in Dallas,tx. you say they don't look at gpa's. We had to have a 4.o in our prereques, or didn't even had to apply. Last semester they turned people away with 4.0s, just because there were to many that applied with high GPA. This school i am going too, is known for being very tough and yes they do try to weed out some even during the programm. But i am a nurse from germany, they just did not accept my degree here, so i decided to start over again, it has been 15 years since i have worked as a nurse. From experience i know not everyone is cut out to be a good nurse. ANd i believe even though you could have a great GPA on your prereques, you still could not be cut out to do the real stuff.
. They are far from "fair". With a few exceptions, the people who failed out were all excellent test takers and good risks for the NCLEX as well as the profession in general. These same instructors choose to write their own test questions. As a former English major and a writer...I can tell you that I have seen some sentences that came directly out of the belly of sentence he!!. A waste. And a shame.
:smiley_ab 
:devil: 
IdahoGirl
41 Posts
You are so correct when you speak of the waiting list with nursing schools these days. So many people out there only see that we have a nursing shortage and do not conect that with the shortage of nursing instructors as well as clinical sites. I am due to graduate from an ADN program in May, and the only way I got into the program was because I am an LPN and had my prereq work completed. For those wanting to enter the program now, it is a 3-4 year waiting list, with all prereq's completed.