nursing retirement

applewhitern, BSN, RN · Nov 8, 2012

I agree with Esme that if you become ill, you are just "out of luck." I had to "cash in" all my retirement plans to pay for my son's astronomical medical bills. He was found to have stage 4 cancer at age 21, and we very quickly maxed out his medical insurance. Over the course of 8 years, he had bilateral lung re-sections, a liver re-section, colectomy, several hernia repairs, years of chemotherapy and multiple infections, radiation, etc. It was never-ending. He was denied disability the first time, and by the time it was finally awarded to him, we were several years in debt. He was denied Medicaid twice, and finally died without ever getting it. It completely wiped us out financially. (Imagine standing in the doctor's office and being told the doctor won't see you unless you pay your past-due bill.) If he had been under age 18, he could have got help, but there isn't help for someone in his age bracket. (St. Jude's, Ronald-McDonald houses, etc. are only for the under 18 group.) Anyway, try to work where there is a guaranteed retirement. At 55, I won't be able to save much for my retirement now, and I won't be getting any state or federal pension.

nurseprnRN, BSN, RN · Nov 8, 2012

Retirement? Hah. What was laughingly referred to as my retirement account took a huge hit when Wall Street bet against the people and now, though recovered, probably wouldn't pay off the home equity loan for my spouse if I died, and wouldn't pay for four months of a SNF if I broke my dang hip. I will be working until I die.

kcmylorn · Nov 9, 2012

Nurses don't get to retire with the dignity and graditude that others get to retire with. They get pushed out, harassed, insulted degrades, nit picked and micromanaged by their nursing managment until they can't take it anymore and quit. Nurses are expected to"get out" after 20 yrs of experience. If you happen to be in your 40's at that 20yr mark, then you can eat out of soup kitchens and sleep in homeless shelters until 65 yr old when you qualify for medicare.

anotherone, BSN, RN · Nov 9, 2012

Nurses don't get to retire with the dignity and graditude that others get to retire with. They get pushed out, harassed, insulted degrades, nit picked and micromanaged by their nursing managment until they can't take it anymore and quit. Nurses are expected to"get out" after 20 yrs of experience. If you happen to be in your 40's at that 20yr mark, then you can eat out of soup kitchens and sleep in homeless shelters until 65 yr old when you qualify for medicare.

and if you are there at 65 you better be able to do everything your 22 year old coworkers can. remember many nursing jobs are labor intense. dont see too many 75 year olds in construction or working in hospital floors as a staff nurse

llg, PhD, RN · Nov 9, 2012

It's a shame that this young, original poster is getting such a negative view of our profession from some of these posts. Yes, life can be harsh sometimes -- in ANY career, not just nursing. But as a young person thinking of entering the field, we should be helping her to plan accordingly. We should be teaching her how to avoid some of the pitfalls and roadblocks out there. While "doing everything right" cannot guarantee success (and there are no guarantees in any profession) ... there are things she can do to greatly improve her chances of having a long, happy, successful career and a secure retirement.

Such things include:

1. Start with a good education (BSN) from a well-respected school -- but don't dig a deep hole of debt doing it. The education will get your career off to a good start. Avoiding the huge debt will do the same for your personal/family finances.

2. Continue to upgrade your knowledge, skills, and credentials regularly throughout your career -- and keep on good terms with your employers. That will keep you in a good position to get the best jobs.

3. Do NOT spend more money than you make. Avoid the temptation to buy stuff just because you want it ... or your friends have it ... etc. Learn to distinguish between your actual needs and you "wants." Don't waste much money on "wants." Don't buy fancier cars, bigger houses, expensive vacations, etc. than you can comfortably afford.

4. Save for retirement with every paycheck -- and plan on never taking money out of those retirement accounts until you actually retire. Have OTHER savings to handle unexpected emergencies, etc. That will mean living a modest lifestyle. So be it. As you get older and want to retire, you'll be glad you made a few sacrifices when you were young.

5. Don't have more children than you can comfortably afford. And don't become a full time stay-at-home mom unless your husband makes enough money to guarantee your financial future for the rest of your life. It's really hard to come back to work and earn enough money to support yourself (after divorce, spousal death, spousal severe illness, bankruptcy, etc.) once you have been out of the workforce for more than a few months.

6. Learn where you can get sound financial advice -- read about personal fincance ... talk with advisors ... etc. throughout you life so that you can have good information and make informed choices.

Hopefully, other people will add to this list. Good luck!

llg

hiddencatRN, BSN, RN · Nov 9, 2012

Yeah, the best time to start a savings habit is before you had a chance to experience "lifestyle creep". You get a new job, have all this new income. You get a nicer apartment, upgrade your cell plan, start eating out a bit or buying nice things, get a better car (nothing flashy, just a little upgrade) and suddenly you're used to the spending and you have more monthly bills and require your new income where before it was nice extra money beyond expenses.

Do payroll deduction for savings from the start. Do the work retirement plan but don't invest solely in the stock market. Make sure you have safer, more reliable investments. Buy a modest home and build equity. Be as well insured as you can be. Look in to whole life insurance as part of your savings plan. Avoid debt, especially credit card debt. Save first, treats and rewards later.

Music in My Heart · Nov 9, 2012

Some of the unionized facilities (e.g. Kaiser and CHW) offer defined-benefit pensions to their nurses but most use 401(k)/403(b) plans and kick in a pittance in match... my last job, the match was about $80/month and then let the stock market determine your future...

llg, PhD, RN · Nov 9, 2012

Most 401/403 plans give the employee several options to choose from. The employee can pick the type of fund they invest their money in. They have stock funds ... but also have bond funds ... and fixed income investments. That's why it is important to educate yourself about the various options and not just hand your money over blindly. You need to pick the type of investment that is right for you based on your personal needs and risk tolerance.

For me, I chose a fairly balanced portfolio that includes both stock funds and other types of funds. Yes, most of the funds declined (some, dramatically) during the recession of 2008-2009, when the stock market went from 14,000 to 6,000. But I re-gained most of that money when the stock market recoved in 2010 -2011 and went back up to 13,000. I also made a very nice profit on all the money I continued to invest with each paycheck when the stock market was low. ("Buy low, sell high.")

chuckster, ADN, BSN, RN, EMT-B · Nov 9, 2012

As others have already said, most workers in the US no longer have pension plans - in fact, only about 31% of workers are covered by defined benefit plans, the formal name for pensions. Right now, usually only union workers or those working for the government have pensions and even this is changing. You may remember that the governor of WI faced a recall election for, among other things, proposing to change state workers pensions over to a defined contribution plan (aka, 401k plan). These are far less expensive for employers, put most of the risk on the workers and are an absolute boon to the finance industry, who get billions of dollars in fees for "managing" the plans.

So assuming you don't have a pension, the amount of time you need to spend in the workforce will vary considerably. The more you make and save and even more importantly, how you invest those savings, the sooner you can retire. A good ballpark (if somewhat low) figure for a couple is to have the equivalent of $1 million in retirement savings, which would equate to a retirement income of about $50,000 - $60,000 per year. Some of this can come from Social Security, roughly a third, so you (assume the collective "you" - a marrried couple) should aim to have a 401k balance of at least $700k at retirement. Those are numbers for today however, inflation and the time-value of money will push them up considerably over the years. Social Security benefits may also decline, meaning you'd have to offset them with additional savings. By the way, the average 401k balance today is about $60,000 - far, far short of what an individual, much less a couple, will need at retirement.

So the moral of the story is: Invest as much as possible for as long as possible in your 401k and choose your plan investments wisely (or you'll loose 50% in them when the stock market takes another nosedive like it did in 2007 - 2008). And pay attention to llg's earlier posting - lots of good advice there.

kcmylorn · Nov 9, 2012

It's a shame that this young, original poster is getting such a negative view of our profession from some of these posts. Yes, life can be harsh sometimes -- in ANY career, not just nursing. But as a young person thinking of entering the field, we should be helping her to plan accordingly. We should be teaching her how to avoid some of the pitfalls and roadblocks out there. While "doing everything right" cannot guarantee success (and there are no guarantees in any profession) ... there are things she can do to greatly improve her chances of having a long, happy, successful career and a secure retirement.
Such things include:
1. Start with a good education (BSN) from a well-respected school -- but don't dig a deep hole of debt doing it. The education will get your career off to a good start. Avoiding the huge debt will do the same for your personal/family finances.
2. Continue to upgrade your knowledge, skills, and credentials regularly throughout your career -- and keep on good terms with your employers. That will keep you in a good position to get the best jobs.
3. Do NOT spend more money than you make. Avoid the temptation to buy stuff just because you want it ... or your friends have it ... etc. Learn to distinguish between your actual needs and you "wants." Don't waste much money on "wants." Don't buy fancier cars, bigger houses, expensive vacations, etc. than you can comfortably afford.
4. Save for retirement with every paycheck -- and plan on never taking money out of those retirement accounts until you actually retire. Have OTHER savings to handle unexpected emergencies, etc. That will mean living a modest lifestyle. So be it. As you get older and want to retire, you'll be glad you made a few sacrifices when you were young.
5. Don't have more children than you can comfortably afford. And don't become a full time stay-at-home mom unless your husband makes enough money to guarantee your financial future for the rest of your life. It's really hard to come back to work and earn enough money to support yourself (after divorce, spousal death, spousal severe illness, bankruptcy, etc.) once you have been out of the workforce for more than a few months.
6. Learn where you can get sound financial advice -- read about personal fincance ... talk with advisors ... etc. throughout you life so that you can have good information and make informed choices.
Hopefully, other people will add to this list. Good luck!llg

The real truth of it is. This young person can make a mega bunch more money in the IT or Information managment field, just read the figures on Monster.com $109,000/year, or in any of the engineering( $110,000/yr) fields or in finance($$100,000-$170,000/yr), than they ever can in NURSING and not nearly the same amount of legal liability.

The truth is, that when you are done at that really good school with thousands of dollars in student loans, including a BSN program, your chances are very slim at getting a position in nursing upon graduation, inspite of all the advertised specials of"nursing shortage" Common sense would tell anyone, if there really were a "shortage" then people would be able to get jobs. Propaganda will tell you, "come on in the water is wonderful".

Nursing has itself confused with modeling and professional sports figures, a person is no good anymore after a certain age. Once you have been out of the nursing workforce for a few months, you are no longer Heidi Klum or the Gerber baby" and all the photogs in the nursing world have found the new fresh face while you were gone. Nursing has nothing to do with what you know, there is always some one who comes along and thinks they know it all and will beat you to a bloddy pulp to make you believe that,. They will even correct your own personal birth weight when given a chance.

Nursing is an ugly business. And the business industry will always win out over your critical thinking and nursing judgement that YOU went to school for. They can't even spell the word "Nursing" but they are going to issue moron policies that dictate how you practice under your license. And if some thing, like a little old patient dies, it's your head on the block not theirs because then they suddenly remember- they have no license and no educatio in nursing. They have selective amnesia and are "Legally blonde", Clueless", Dumb and Dumber" at best, on their good days. They don't understand or know the "workflow" but nursing has handed them the keys and let them be in charge.

Women have a much greater earning potential, opportunities and choices in todays world- why waste your time on the Nursing Profession. Why put yourself through this??

This is my honest opinnion and I don't care who likes it.

I did forget- Your Nursing managment will not advise or like it if you are married or have children or aging parents, yes they proclaim they are for health children and a, good support system and for your aging parents to"age in place" as opposed to the nursing home, but that is only their cheesy smile for the photogs, Which is why they will only hire if one has perfect teeth( they don't wnt to pay dental bene's) a perfect BMI, non smoking, not flatus expelling rabbit food eating person. No flaws- airbrushed!! That is so you can get up in the morning every morning, get dressed in your scrubs and wait for the phone to ring( yes darling I'm coming") so they can cancel you( and not pay for that cancel either)every 4 hours until the next shift. See, all those family members are distractions to the Nurse manager who wants to have her big butt off or sit in a chair all day in her office thinking about which "coach" purse she is going to buy next.

Then they don't tell you the truth, they will minimize or dumb down the risks you will be taking by accespting an assignement- whether it is a paient assignement(Oh, we all work togewther here- BULL) or it's not that far of a drive- ..(only 81 miles each way from your home according to who//) Nursing is very practiced at lying that is why they boast"they are the most trusted porfessional " kind of makes them sound like a disposable diaper- they can hold more crap with out spilling the beans.

Susie2310 · Nov 9, 2012

I agree with Esme that if you become ill, you are just "out of luck." I had to "cash in" all my retirement plans to pay for my son's astronomical medical bills. He was found to have stage 4 cancer at age 21, and we very quickly maxed out his medical insurance. Over the course of 8 years, he had bilateral lung re-sections, a liver re-section, colectomy, several hernia repairs, years of chemotherapy and multiple infections, radiation, etc. It was never-ending. He was denied disability the first time, and by the time it was finally awarded to him, we were several years in debt. He was denied Medicaid twice, and finally died without ever getting it. It completely wiped us out financially. (Imagine standing in the doctor's office and being told the doctor won't see you unless you pay your past-due bill.) If he had been under age 18, he could have got help, but there isn't help for someone in his age bracket. (St. Jude's, Ronald-McDonald houses, etc. are only for the under 18 group.) Anyway, try to work where there is a guaranteed retirement. At 55, I won't be able to save much for my retirement now, and I won't be getting any state or federal pension.

I am so sorry to read about your son. I am sitting here staring at your post.

nurseprnRN, BSN, RN · Nov 9, 2012

Fortunately the ACA forbids caps on benefits now, and kids can stay on their parents' insurance until age 25. Situations like this are one reason why this was put in there.

I am so sorry to hear of your loss. You are in my thoughts.