Philippine Board of Nursing to stop Second Coursers from taking up Nursing - page 8
I guess this is against the right of an individual who want to pursue nursing as a second course... what can you say?:angryfire... Read More
Jul 18, '08Why the PI government need to stop 2nd course program? All they need to do is to wait. Everything will fall into its place naturally. With tens thousands nursing graduates hang there without an RN job nor can they get a Green Card to go to US, fewer and fewer people will go to 2nd course. And eventually, these programs have to shut down by themselves for lack of demand.
When the job market goes bad, it would be after a while before it shows in the education area. Which means, there is a lag period in the education market and job market. Seems that international demand for PI nurses dramatically slows down in recent years, along with the western countries getting wise by educating and providing jobs to their own citizens. Eventually there will be a corresponding decrease in the nursing graduates in PI.
Jul 19, '08Glad that you made this post, but the funnier part of it is that the enrollment in nursing schools there continues to increase.
Just a year ago or so, there were 632,000 enrolled in nursing programs there and just recently, it is up to 950,000. Continues to go up and with the chances of getting a job when one gets finished drastically going down.
There are also quite a few programs that have never had one graduate pass the NLE, these programs should have been closed down quite some time ago, but it is just now that the government is starting to do what it should have.
Jul 19, '08I agree when the nurse falsifies documents it is a criminal offence and needs to be dealt with accordingly, but doesnt this happen in many countries.
Should we really taint the whole process because a few do not continue? Should we really expect that because someone has a degree in a specific field they should be forced to continue in that field. Isn't this the exact argument against the discucssion of preventing second coursers from taking nursing.
Let me ask, if you lived in the Philippines and were earning 5-10,000pesos per month and the opportunity, legally presented itself for you to go overseas if you studied nursing, would you take it or not?
We should not make judgments of other, if we do they can make judgments of us.
The other side of the argument is why do obviously incompetent or people not suited to nursing stay in the profession? Should we then demand they leave or is it really their life's choice?
consider the family in the Philippines trying to survive on one income of 6,000 pesos $USD 130 per month, what do you think they will say. Also consider this. If all the nurses or prospective nurses from the Philippines do not apply to the USA for work where will your health system be.
Isn't it worth the few who leave the system to accept those who do not. And isn't it rewarding to see that another family has now the means to live a reasonable life with the support of the nurse overseas.
Jul 19, '08Actually it was the schools that were falsifying the documents, not the nurses; but they were very aware of what is going on.
And you are still not understanding what I am saying about these programs. The fact is that many that are going thru the second courser programs were in other professions that paid relatively well such as attorneys, judges, engineers, accountants; that had no science background and doing it just to get a green card and get to the US.
The fact is that this is no longer a possicility for many, and there are not that many other countries that have openings for that many nurses as you are well aware of.
I have been helping foreign nurses for years, probably since before you were born and am more than aware of what is happening in your country. And there are actually more countries in the world that are as corrupt as yours or even worse. It comes down to the fact that your country is manufacturing nurses like a commodity to sell to the highest bidder and because they are being mass produced, there qualities are not as they used to be, so that is also making it harder to get to another country.
When the local license is required as well as two years of work experience, you are going to see even more limits placed on where graduates from there can get to. And all of this has been very well known for quite sometime, not just since yesterday.
Jul 19, '08I know this must be a concern if you live in the US but the Us is not the only country nurses go to and other countries like Australia do not show any concern if the nurses are skilled and choose to work in other fields. Nor do they show any concern if they choose to leave their country and live in another later on. doen't the US source nurses from allover the world?
In fact my research shows that more than 50% of newly graduated nurses in Australia leave the profession in the first 6 months. You cannot legislate against intent, the constitutions prevent this, you can only legislate against crimes and illegal acts. Choice of profession is an individual thing.
It seems like the US is feeling cheated because they did not get what they wanted and cannot control it. People are people.
the nurses in the Philippines must pass the NLE and the PRC does not issue false certificates, so even if the nursing colleges did, the nurse must have passed the board exam before being accepted and then they needed to take the NCLEX and CGFNS and TOEFL so a false document from the College is only a small part of it and without the qualifications for the US based on the US testing the nurses would not have qualified.
I think the point is not realistic and the focus should be on the qualification process. If you think the nurses from the Philippines are not the same quality as those of previous years then it is a result of both the Philippine Regulatory Commission testing and the US testing system, experience or no experience.
Remember the US trained nurses also need experience and gain it in the hospital don't they.
And you may be older than me or not, but the laws of all countries and conditions change monthly so how do you keep up with it? That must be a full time job on its own.
A broad approach considering the consequences for the nurses would be what I would expect from a forum such as this. Countries concerns should be left to the respective governments.
We are just nurses looking for a career overseas and if it is available then let us take it, and if it is not then we will not apply there. The other issues are not of concern to us, first or second coursers collectively. the criteria for us is qualify, apply and go to other countries.
And the agency has given names of nurses currently working in Australia who have been placed to work there. Perhaps these nurses are too busy working 6-7 days per week, or spend their spare time communicating with the family in the Philippines. Who knows, Filipinos have very close family ties and the family comes first here.
Thanks for the feedback
Jul 19, '08Just giving a reminder to everyone to stick with the topic and the topic is:
"Philippine Board of Nursing to stop Second Coursers from taking up Nursing"
All other issues that may lead to the thread being off-tracked should be avoided.
Thanks for understanding.
Jul 19, '08Dear Justin RN.
This is exactly the point. Study what you want. Choose your own career. Change careers if you need to in life as many people do. If not we will have a society run by communism and worse that tells us exactly what we will or will not study and what jobs we can and cannot do.
It is frightening to think the US (if it is true) is legislating against this. A democratic country (where democracy only applies to those born there).
Jul 20, '08Please stick to the topic that is being discussed here, and it is specifically about the second courser programs; nothing to do with working in the US or even Australia.
And it has nothing to do with the US, this is something that your country is doing. The US has no say in what is done there, only with what is done in the US. That is how it has always been, and will continue to be.
And as has been mentioned, over 80,000 that passed the NLE last year and no jobs for more than a handful. There is no one country that is going to be able to take all of those nurses,far from it. and not even enough offers from all over the world that can offer jobs to all.
Focus needs to be on improving the training of the full four year programs first, and cleaning up the programs that are there. There are quite a few that have never had one single graduate that has passed the NLE. The only way to clean house is to start at the top and strengthen the programs that are in place and are sucessful.
If there were 632,000 students there last year in nursing and now it is up to 950,000 currently enrolled, there is no way for all to get the training that they need. And when clinical skills of the Clinical Instructors is not what it should be, and they are doing the clinical teaching, that only makes things worse when they have had no experience as an RN but went straight into teaching. You will not find this in any other country but yours. All require clinical work experience before they are able to teach.
Jul 20, '08Recent changes to the courses in the Philippines require nurses to study for 5 years now. From the June 2008 commencement all nurses will have to take the 5 year course. Effectively now the second coursers will study a 3 year course and as this equates to the real portion of the original degree, the new nurses are being required to complete the equivalent of another 2 years of High school (comparable with many other countries) this has been the governments response to the complaints about the second coursers.
Sad really, because the complaints have only led to causing additional costs and demands on the first coursers.
It always pays to think through the complaint first before making it, because we may not be happy with the solution.
Jul 20, '08Actually the program there was always five years in the past for the BSN, my contemporaries all completed the five year program there. And that is what the reputation of the Filipino nurses was based on.
They had fabulous experiences and nothing comes close to that now. Much more clinical experience, that is for sure. And you could see it from the day that they started to work.
The issue is not just complaints, but issues with everything that is happening there right now with nurse training. Back when the reputation was set, there was only one student nurse per patient, not the large number that we are seeing today and they were doing all of the skills that a BSN is expected to have and be able to peform on their own as soon as they graduate. They also were required to complete 50 deliveries before they finished their training as well as provide all medical/nursing care on an outlying province for six months, so they really learned to think and assess. Not something that is being taught there any longer.
Your country needs to get the reputaton back up of its grads, or it will not be able to find placement for anyone. And if you notice, they are great at finding care-giver agreements with other countries but when has a four year BSN, this is just a sham and should not be tolerated.
And if one does not complain, then things to not get fixed or taken care of. Even when taking care of a patient, sometimes you need to be vocal to protect them when they are in your care. This is what nursing is all about.
Jul 20, '08The point I made is the course is no longer 4 years. It is now five (5) years. this is the result of the complaints regarding the second coursers who will be required to take a 3 year course now not 2.
Jul 20, '08The length of the program was not increased just because of complaints about the second courser programs, that is where you are quite mistaken.
The complaints started because lack of clinical skills from many of the new graduates from your country, and the four year BSN. The second courser programs have only been in existance for a few years, but the four year programs have been around for much longer.
Things need to be fixed from the top first.
And this is nothing new, it has been discussed on this forum about the increase in length of training for probably close to a year at least, it has been a very well known fact that this was expected to be happening. And now it is.
Jul 20, '08The Program in the Philippines has never been 5 years for nursing. It has always been 4 years until now. I do not know where you obtained this information but it is wrong.
The new course starting in June is 5 years, My course was 4 years and all the other nurses I know also did a 4 year course.