Philippine Board of Nursing to stop Second Coursers from taking up Nursing

moses59 · Jul 17, 2008

i think its unfair for the 2nd coursers to bear the brunt of this phenomenon. i am a graduate of nursing, which is my second course. i worked my heart off to earn this degree just like anybody else. in fact, 2nd coursers from where i graduated have to work extra hard.

so, the people who want to stop second coursers from taking up nursing should provide better jobs, better pay and excellent work security for us to stay in our jobs.

and besides, who are they to say or determine that nursing is not in our hearts?

suzanne4, RN · Jul 17, 2008

This is not a decision made by anyone here, but what your government is trying to do to clean things up there. An over abundance of programs were permitted to open but there have been issues with many of the programs there. As well as no jobs available for almost all.

And we keep seeing nurses wishing to go to other countries to work as care-givers as well, and that is nothing more than being a maid in most cases. Your government continues to sign agreements with other countries for this.

Nursing in your country now is mostly done as a volunteer or thru a training program that you must pay for. The paying jobs in many of the other countries require both the NLE as well as paid work experience; hard to get that now.

And the US is under a retrogression and the EU has a hiring freeze in place, so people realy need to consider what they are going to be doing before they even start the nursing program.

Best of luck to you.

sally22 · Jul 18, 2008

There is also a proposal from one senator to introduce a requirement that nurses must have 10 years experience before they can leave the country. this is very rare in the Philippines, only a few nurses gain this level of work experience, demonstrating the apparent and obvious ignorance of the senators and politicians (who incidentialy must have a different agenda).

This and any other form of discrimination in the Philippine system are all a reflection on the government and the government alone. All are ridiculous to the point of ridiculing the very government that takes this action.

Further any restriction on who and what a prospective student can study or not study should be left to the learning institutions.

The unfortunate scenario is the government makes a lot of money and supports the Philippines with the compulsory remittances from the overseas workers, so anything that does not bring money to the Philippines always comes into the discussion. As nurses we face these and other challenges but should not lose sight of the purpose of our course.

It is also true that whilst the government often causes problems in the system, without the system we would have no way of accessing the overseas opportunities. so let's look at understanding the system and complying so we and our families can benefit from it.

nosebleed23 · Jul 18, 2008

well, i can say that each person deserves a better life. so we are up to the challenge. I am an undergrad when i studied for my BSN. i find it unfair because they will just study for 2 years. but the thing is they and well as every one else aspire of better life. so maybe the board of nursing doesn't have the right to stop them from taking the course but what they can do is to have them take the regular course which is the ffour or five year course of BSN.

Everyone deserved a better life! if you think you can leave your profession as a dcotor to have greener pastuer then it is your prerogative.. Nurses just have to find ways to eliminate competitions!

Silverdragon102, BSN · Jul 18, 2008

No one is saying not to look for a better life the problem arises when many countries ask for experience of 1-2 years and a country that has a over supply just can not provide that experience. Volunteering in most cases will not meet the requirement of experience

justinRN · Jul 18, 2008

well, i can say that each person deserves a better life. so we are up to the challenge. i am an undergrad when i studied for my bsn. "i find it unfair because they will just study for 2 years. but the thing is they and well as every one else aspire of better life. so maybe the board of nursing doesn't have the right to stop them from taking the course but what they can do is to have them take the regular course which is the ffour or five year course of bsn."

huh???

i think what you forgot to realize here is that here in the phil. having a 1st course (bs biology,bsmt,etc) will eliminate all other subjects that a regular nursing student would have to take up be it a major or minor subject. so now, are you trying to say that if i already have a degree in let say pharmacy. i would have to take up, for ex. microbiology,chemistry, phil. history, and all other major/minor subjects all over again?just so as to be fair to you and every regular rn student.. :banghead: yaiks!!! scary thought!

how then would the commission on higher ed create a 2nd courser bsn-rn program which would comprise of 4-5 year course? invent a specialty subject like microbiology the extended version or perhaps a subject called chemistry 101 for 2nd coursers only? i think they should make a new version of the periodic table first before making this a subject.

bottomline is that, undergrads and 2nd coursers have the same nursing subjects they both have to comply with the 2,703 hours of hospital duties. also, with the or/dr requirements, both have the same number of required duties.

so,as to the topic of stopping 2nd coursers from taking nursing as a degree. i guess the philippine board of nursing as a body would definitely have to pay off our dear congress, our honorable president (is honorable and horrible synonymous to this pres? :clown: ) for the charter change of the 1987 constitution and amend this right to education:

[color=#663366]section 5. (1) the state shall take into account regional and sectoral needs and conditions and shall encourage local planning in the development of educational policies and programs.

[color=#663366](2) academic freedom shall be enjoyed in all institutions of higher learning.

[color=#663366](3) every citizen has a right to select a profession or course of study, subject to fair, reasonable, and equitable admission and academic requirements. http://www.chanrobles.com/article14.htm

suzanne4, RN · Jul 19, 2008

Not all second coursers have all of the science courses at all, we are seeing judges, accountants, attorneys, etc. all in second courser programs as a quick chance to get to the US and this is the reason that they did so and then got out of nursing as soon as they had the green card in hand.

The other issue is that there are some of the second courser programs that falsified documents that were submitted to your country as well as abroad.

You are looking at things from only one side and there are many more parts to it.

But what it comes down to is the fact that your government is not trying to close down some of these programs and strengthen the programs that will remain. They need to focus on the four year BSN programs first.

And since there are no jobs in your country for most in the field of nursing and not that many openings in other countries as well, things are going to be getting more difficult there as well.

mitcornsus · Jul 19, 2008

Why the PI government need to stop 2nd course program? All they need to do is to wait. Everything will fall into its place naturally. With tens thousands nursing graduates hang there without an RN job nor can they get a Green Card to go to US, fewer and fewer people will go to 2nd course. And eventually, these programs have to shut down by themselves for lack of demand.

When the job market goes bad, it would be after a while before it shows in the education area. Which means, there is a lag period in the education market and job market. Seems that international demand for PI nurses dramatically slows down in recent years, along with the western countries getting wise by educating and providing jobs to their own citizens. Eventually there will be a corresponding decrease in the nursing graduates in PI.

suzanne4, RN · Jul 19, 2008

Glad that you made this post, but the funnier part of it is that the enrollment in nursing schools there continues to increase.

Just a year ago or so, there were 632,000 enrolled in nursing programs there and just recently, it is up to 950,000. Continues to go up and with the chances of getting a job when one gets finished drastically going down.

There are also quite a few programs that have never had one graduate pass the NLE, these programs should have been closed down quite some time ago, but it is just now that the government is starting to do what it should have.

sally22 · Jul 19, 2008

I agree when the nurse falsifies documents it is a criminal offence and needs to be dealt with accordingly, but doesnt this happen in many countries.

Should we really taint the whole process because a few do not continue? Should we really expect that because someone has a degree in a specific field they should be forced to continue in that field. Isn't this the exact argument against the discucssion of preventing second coursers from taking nursing.

Let me ask, if you lived in the Philippines and were earning 5-10,000pesos per month and the opportunity, legally presented itself for you to go overseas if you studied nursing, would you take it or not?

We should not make judgments of other, if we do they can make judgments of us.

The other side of the argument is why do obviously incompetent or people not suited to nursing stay in the profession? Should we then demand they leave or is it really their life's choice?

consider the family in the Philippines trying to survive on one income of 6,000 pesos $USD 130 per month, what do you think they will say. Also consider this. If all the nurses or prospective nurses from the Philippines do not apply to the USA for work where will your health system be.

Isn't it worth the few who leave the system to accept those who do not. And isn't it rewarding to see that another family has now the means to live a reasonable life with the support of the nurse overseas.

suzanne4, RN · Jul 19, 2008

Actually it was the schools that were falsifying the documents, not the nurses; but they were very aware of what is going on.

And you are still not understanding what I am saying about these programs. The fact is that many that are going thru the second courser programs were in other professions that paid relatively well such as attorneys, judges, engineers, accountants; that had no science background and doing it just to get a green card and get to the US.

The fact is that this is no longer a possicility for many, and there are not that many other countries that have openings for that many nurses as you are well aware of.

I have been helping foreign nurses for years, probably since before you were born and am more than aware of what is happening in your country. And there are actually more countries in the world that are as corrupt as yours or even worse. It comes down to the fact that your country is manufacturing nurses like a commodity to sell to the highest bidder and because they are being mass produced, there qualities are not as they used to be, so that is also making it harder to get to another country.

When the local license is required as well as two years of work experience, you are going to see even more limits placed on where graduates from there can get to. And all of this has been very well known for quite sometime, not just since yesterday.

sally22 · Jul 20, 2008

I know this must be a concern if you live in the US but the Us is not the only country nurses go to and other countries like Australia do not show any concern if the nurses are skilled and choose to work in other fields. Nor do they show any concern if they choose to leave their country and live in another later on. doen't the US source nurses from allover the world?

In fact my research shows that more than 50% of newly graduated nurses in Australia leave the profession in the first 6 months. You cannot legislate against intent, the constitutions prevent this, you can only legislate against crimes and illegal acts. Choice of profession is an individual thing.

It seems like the US is feeling cheated because they did not get what they wanted and cannot control it. People are people.

the nurses in the Philippines must pass the NLE and the PRC does not issue false certificates, so even if the nursing colleges did, the nurse must have passed the board exam before being accepted and then they needed to take the NCLEX and CGFNS and TOEFL so a false document from the College is only a small part of it and without the qualifications for the US based on the US testing the nurses would not have qualified.

I think the point is not realistic and the focus should be on the qualification process. If you think the nurses from the Philippines are not the same quality as those of previous years then it is a result of both the Philippine Regulatory Commission testing and the US testing system, experience or no experience.

Remember the US trained nurses also need experience and gain it in the hospital don't they.

And you may be older than me or not, but the laws of all countries and conditions change monthly so how do you keep up with it? That must be a full time job on its own.

A broad approach considering the consequences for the nurses would be what I would expect from a forum such as this. Countries concerns should be left to the respective governments.

We are just nurses looking for a career overseas and if it is available then let us take it, and if it is not then we will not apply there. The other issues are not of concern to us, first or second coursers collectively. the criteria for us is qualify, apply and go to other countries.

And the agency has given names of nurses currently working in Australia who have been placed to work there. Perhaps these nurses are too busy working 6-7 days per week, or spend their spare time communicating with the family in the Philippines. Who knows, Filipinos have very close family ties and the family comes first here.

Thanks for the feedback