Nursing Home will not accept deaf students into their CNA course

[Silent Prayer]

Nevermind disability law, I'd rather not learn from a biased group of audistic (prejudice against the deaf) of individuals. Well, Mrs. *****, I don't care if YOU don't think I can become a CNA, much less an RN. I will both and you can have a front row seat in the losers; circle to see me obtain both certifications / licenses.

Rant /

[PostOpPrincess, BSN, RN]

If it were my loved one in the bed, I would want someone that could hear them scream. I would want someone who could hear the alarm, etc.

With no offense intended, a nurse should be able to perform the entire job with REASONABLE assist and relying on the other nurse to take over when you can't hear something is not reasonable. Sorry, just my opinion.

I agree with this.

[DirtyBlackSocks]

From one disabled person to another - don't let it get you down.

Even if you did fight against this and get the job, who wants to work with some one that thinks you're less of a person because you're built differently?

Keep plugging away, you will find something worth while - where you are treated as an equal.

[ljdcarolina]

yeah i worked with a nurse and she couldnt hear in one ear and had bad hearing in the other and she had a digital read out thing...but she still put it in her ears so im not sure the details on how it works

[TampaTech]

you know i think that its kind of crappy that they did this too you. But, theres always a but. I understand that you owna stethescope that displays the info on the LCD screen, however nursing and CNA work does require the ability to beable to hear, too many reasons to list. Should you become a nurse, alot of nurses give verbal report and written report. How is a patient going to feel safe with you as their nurse with you having the inability to hear them speak. I know this sounds harsh and uncaring but its not. I just want to speak the truth.

[nursel56]

I'm trying to understand how it is possible for someone with any type of disability to do any job otherwise it's illegal? A blind person can sue if they are rejected as an Air Traffic Controller unless the classified ad specifically says that the successful candidate must be able to see? Can you be a lifeguard?

Not trying to judge at all, it's just that such a broad requirement not sustainable. There are lots of jobs I can think of that a disability might make impossible to do, and very few that will say on the ad must be able to hear, see etc-- because it's implied. Don't flame me, either!! TY.

[Nascar nurse, ASN, RN]

From one disabled person to another - don't let it get you down.

Even if you did fight against this and get the job, who wants to work with some one that thinks you're less of a person because you're built differently?

Keep plugging away, you will find something worth while - where you are treated as an equal.

Again, with the utmost respect... this is inflammatory & not helpful. I haven't read one reply that makes ANY attempt to make her seem "less of a person". In this "it's all about me" driven society we have to remember that in nursing it is not about "Me" it's about the person entrusted to our care and the ABILITY to care of the needs of that person. With that comes alot of responsibility and accountability.

If we re-read the title, this thread is all about a student for a CNA class in long term care. In LTC, a CNA does not need some fancy stethoscope. That is job function that can be reasonably done by the nurse. But, in LTC, residents aren't tucked in their beds at all times, they are out wandering about away from a call light. So what do they do when they need help... they scream out. There are also many residents with bed and w/c alarms. How many injuries are going to occur when the aide can't even hear them alarm. These are a very basic job function of a CNA and repeated numerous times throughout any given shift.

The ability to hear is a major requirement to be a CNA in a nursing home. If it were YOUR Mom in the facility wouldn't you feel the same way. "Sorry Mrs Smith. Yes your Mom did fall for the 6th time this week and yes she did have a fracture today, but you know Susie can't hear the alarms and the other aides are to far down the hall to get to your Mom before she falls. Yes Mrs. Smith, I do know a good attorney".

[Indy, LPN, LVN]

Allright, y'all who keep "honestly" questioning a deaf person's ability to function in a hearing world, need to just step back a second. Really. This is not last century, we have learned a thing or two haven't we? Nurses, number one, need to a. show up and b. pay attention. This applies whether you can hear or not. So pay attention.

/taking deep breath

Let me clarify my position. I'm not deaf. I'm very hard of hearing on the low end of the scale. I need, and use, an electronic stethoscope but it's not as fancy as the thing the OP has. There do exist scopes to do much more than make things louder. The OP didn't clarify if she/he has cochlear implants, or hearing aids, or whatnot. So depending on the specifics of the individual's hearing problem, there will be both different adaptations and different problems to overcome. I maintain that they can be overcome. I also am of the firm opinion that those who think every nurse has to conform to every little expectation to be perfect, probably is 1. a little lazy and 2. going to see what it's like as the years roll, if they are lucky enough to live that long.

First problem, the apical pulse. There are ways to get around it. One, electronic scopes and two, fingers. You ever see the nurse hold the steth bell on with fingers beside it, they may be looking for erb's point to make sure they are hearing it correctly. Even a profoundly deaf nurse usually learns that trick and it helps them to know if their equipment is reading right. During nursing school, the use of the twoperson steth for teaching and testing is gotten around by simply having the teacher use his/her own steth beside the student and take a few extra minutes.

Second problem: Lung sounds. Lung sounds are normally higher pitched than heartbeats and most adaptive devices make it easy to assess these. Also whenever I had a patient with pronounced lung sounds other than normal, I would with their permission, place my hand beside the scope. There is a distinct feel to rhonchi and if you feel something where you don't hear anything, it tells you to either turn your scope on or replace the batteries. :-) I never had a patient that looked uncomfortable for this; they all seemed to appreciate the human touch, even through gloves.

Third problem: various alarms. Call bell systems- I haven't seen one yet that didn't make a light outside the room go on, so if you can't hear can you see? When it is (rarely) time to sit, can you do it in view of the rooms? Also that rounding thing comes in handy, the reason I stated earlier that people who are judgemental are sometimes lazy is that there are those who will ONLY check their patients if they hear a noise, versus those who check them very frequently and thus the patients may not even have to call out. I also have yet to see a piece of technology that doesn't have a visual to go with an alarm, hence paying attention comes in handy. I work with nurses whose hearing loss is on the opposite end of the scale from mine- so they can't hear the alarms, and either they check their patients or I tell 'em "hey you have a beeper going off." They don't depend on others per se, but we are all human and so we help each other.

Fourth problem: Bowel sounds. If your steth can pick up lung sounds and/or heart sounds, it surely can pick up those noises. And the same trick for using your hands applies, but only to hyperactive I'm afraid. Even I have to occasionally get a second person's opinion on hypoactive versus absent sounds, and my steth picks up Radio China. (Joke.) I meet nurses frequently who let these various assessment things slide, I don't because it took extra effort for me to learn to hear them in the first place.

Fifth problem: phones. There are adaptive devices to hook to a phone so you can hear the darn thing, (I don't know what they are but a supervisor I work with has one) and of course hearing aids. The profoundly deaf nurse probably won't take a job where he/she is the only person who can take a doctor's order over the phone. I haven't got to the point of wearing hearing aids yet, but I am assertive and make sure the doctors meet me personally in the AM (I work nights) and that they know I'm half deaf so that when I do ask them to speak up, they do- and I'm a stickler for repeating the orders whether they like it or not. Same goes for coworkers, I look at them when they talk and remind them that if they mumble while walking away, I won't know what they said.

Sixth problem- the patients. They are not the problem that you think they will be. First off, I recognize that these are people with problems, like me, and let them know. Yes! I don't have to be perfect! I tell my patients that I'm hard of hearing, I use my adaptive behavior and devices, and they don't have a problem with it. We meet half way- I ask twice what else I can do for them before leaving the room, they tell me- then I check frequently and pay attention to them. Confused people either get their appropriate meds and/or they get their restraints and sitters, as the case may be. I have very few falls. It helps that where I work, the docs are of a "tie first then call" mentality as they don't want falls either. Most patients are just grateful to have a nurse and/or CNA who cares about them, so their basics are met. In rare cases it may be necessary to have different assignments, and I haven't seen that yet.

I apologize to anyone who gets their feelings hurt by my aggressive tone, but seriously, a good nurse would use all of their faculties to help in their nursing practice, and a deaf nurse does no less, just differently. Most of the people I work with don't even realize I have any problems, because my practice produces decent results. Then they go "oh wow where'd you get the fancy steth" and that's when they know I'm hard of hearing.

There are nurses I work with whose hearing is significantly worse than mine, they all seem to have similar types of adaptive ways of doing their job. I have YET to hear a patient or a family member complain about a deaf staff member, in five years. I hear plenty of complaints about laziness and that includes people who can hear. Please, if you haven't been touched by any form of disability in your life, take a moment, thank your god or lucky stars, and try to be considerate of those who aren't as young or lucky as you.

[SuesquatchRN, BSN, RN]

Please. I have hearing CNAs who have never heard a call bell in their careers.

[llg, PhD, RN]

I'm trying to understand how it is possible for someone with any type of disability to do any job otherwise it's illegal? A blind person can sue if they are rejected as an Air Traffic Controller unless the classified ad specifically says that the successful candidate must be able to see? Can you be a lifeguard?

Not trying to judge at all, it's just that such a broad requirement not sustainable. There are lots of jobs I can think of that a disability might make impossible to do, and very few that will say on the ad must be able to hear, see etc-- because it's implied. Don't flame me, either!! TY.

Some people mistakenly believe the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) requires just that -- that any person be hired for any job regardless of handicap. That's not what it actually says. There is the stipulation that the accommodations required by the employer to enable the person to do the essential functions of the job be reasonable. Employers are not expected to make extreme accommodations. The questions come in the form of "What is reasonable?" "How much money should an employer be required to spend on accommodations?" "How much patient risk or inconvenience is OK?" etc.

An educational program (such as a college) only has to accommodate the student for the classes necessary to graduate and meet the requirement to take the NCLEX. They don't have to think about the accommodations that an employer might have to make for a deaf person to fully function in a particular job. Those employment accommodations would depend on the particular job and the particular handicap -- and they might be different than those needed to be made by a school.

There are deaf nurses, but they don't work in every job. Fortunately, there are many different types of jobs in nursing to choose from. Personally, I don't think that being a direct patient care giver in a nursing home would be a good fit for someone with a significant hearing impairment (not correctable by aids or implant.) I can understand why a nursing home would not be wanting to make a significant investment in someone with no experience, who might not work out, etc. I suggest that the OP find a job in which his/her hearing would be less of a problem ... and then go to nursing school and then seek a nursing job for which the hearing would be less of an issue.

[ParkerBC,MSN,RN, PhD, RN]

i think everyone is taking the wrong approach to the challenge at hand.

first, people need to understand the ada laws:

an employer is required to make a reasonable accommodation to the known disability of a qualified applicant or employee if it would not impose an "undue hardship" on the operation of the employer's business. reasonable accommodations are adjustments or modifications provided by an employer to enable people with disabilities to enjoy equal employment opportunities. accommodations vary depending upon the needs of the individual applicant or employee. not all people with disabilities (or even all people with the same disability) will require the same accommodation. for example:

• a deaf applicant may need a sign language interpreter during the job interview.
  
• an employee with diabetes may need regularly scheduled breaks during the workday to eat properly and monitor blood sugar and insulin levels.
  
• a blind employee may need someone to read information posted on a bulletin board.
  
• an employee with cancer may need leave to have radiation or chemotherapy treatments.
  

http://www.eeoc.gov/facts/fs-ada.html

so, just because you're not accepted into a school or secure employment does not mean you're a candidate to sue the facility.

however, if you take a more proactive approach, i think you would find it most beneficial. the people on this thread have posted great concerns and advice, especially the nurse who is hard of hearing and who uses other senses to perform an assessment. write out the challenges you face and come up with two or three different accommodations for those challenges. remember, employers will not pay thousands of dollars for accommodations. be prepared when you go into the room for your interview with your solutions. by having your list of accommodations and explaining the relatively low costs associated, you will have answered questions that employer may be too afraid to ask. not only that, but you demonstrated excellent problem solving skills in a cost efficient manner.

good luck to you!!!

[Nascar nurse, ASN, RN]

Confused people either get their appropriate meds and/or they get their restraints and sitters, as the case may be. I have very few falls. It helps that where I work, the docs are of a "tie first then call" mentality as they don't want falls either. Most patients are just grateful to have a nurse and/or CNA who cares about them, so their basics are met. In rare cases it may be necessary to have different assignments, and I haven't seen that yet. .

Again, the OP is referring to a NURSING HOME & A NURSES AIDE POSITION. From your post you have not spent much time in LTC. Our regulations DO NOT allow us to "tie first and then call". Nor does our budget allow for sitters. Our alarms DO NOT have visual cues to go with them. This is the reality of long term care today and we can go on & on about the advancement of technologies, but a nurses aide in a nursing home (which are chronically understaffed to begin with) must have people that can hear alarms and patients screaming... because that is what our world is.

[canoehead, BSN, RN]

Even with all the adaptive devices out there, what happens when a patient speaks while the nurse is turned away. I don't see a lot of elderly remembering to watch that the nurses is looking directly at them, even if they are not confused.

I want to think we could make accommodations, and we could for nurse to nurse interactions, phones, paperwork etc. The patient is the variable that can't be changed, they communicate via sound. Communication is such a subtle and constant part of the job, it would be very difficult for both parties.