Nursing diagnosis "altered energy field"

Published

"Altered energy diagnosis"

Do you support this NANDA diagnosis? Or do you feel that this diagnosis threatens the legitamacy of our profession? Nanda still stands behind it. What are your thoughts?

paphgrl

I don't think they can usually because they are not in power. But it is still possible as they are getting more powerful.

However the alter energy nursing diagnosis could be interpreted as a sneaky way of forcing one particular world view onto those who do not have the same world view. The energy concept is part of a world view of some very ancient cultures. That may be one of the reason for this huge reaction. Of course, those who reacted negatively are accused of being close minded or maybe even brain washed.

How about Dr Bonnett? I did a quick scan and he seemed to be an alternative type of doc. The quotes by Zenman earlier showed he ridicule the "scientific type". The difference is that Dr Bonnett is very sophisticated in his put down but the scientific type are more of the "caveman" style. Dr Bonnett has class (he can insult you and you don't even know it) and the "caveman" type has no class and crude.

I am not sure at what you attempting to say or imply. Are you saying that the advocates of TT, once they have sufficient power, will shove it down the throats of the evidence based or scientific method groups? I sure hope not because you couldn't be more incorrect. Have you ever spoken, in depth, to a TT practitioner? Or have you listened with a closed mind, that has already decided it does not exist because it cannot be proven to your satisfaction?.

I have little use and respect for anyone who ridicules those that disagree with that person, hence I have no respect for Dr. Bonnett. I also have no respect for those who deride a theory because it cannot be proven to their satisfaction. It is all well and good if someone does not believe in a theory, just do not deride and ridicule those that do. And that appears to be a favorite tactic with some.

Grannynurse:balloons:

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Specializes in Nursing assistant.

Premodern? :)

My kids would say prehistoric!

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Specializes in Nursing assistant.
Hey danu and chadash... I think you are the guys who kicked my butt in debate in high school.

Seriously, thought I'd let you know I've enjoyed your commentary.

Smiles and cheers.

You really cheered me up!

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Specializes in home & public health, med-surg, hospice.
I think that I may not fit in to this forum, because it is mostly women, and I never developed those skills...

I must thank those at all nurses for being really great and increasing my understanding of how things work in nursing. This is truly a great site! Nurses are the best!

Hey Chadash,

I have really enjoyed your posts. Please don't feel insecure about your "fit" or your contributions.

:)

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Hey Chadash,

I have really enjoyed your posts. Please don't feel insecure about your "fit" or your contributions.

:)

:yeahthat:

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I am not sure at what you attempting to say or imply.

What I am saying is that the TT nursing diagnosis can be view (whether rightly or wrongly) as a step of toward making it legit in the nursing world by bypassing the normal evidence base process. As I mentioned before, I do think TT should go through the full blown scientific process because it is a treatment at the biological level (now if I am wrong and TT, say, claim it to be some kind of spiritual technique, then that is a whole different story in terms of having to go through the rigor of science).

The other thing I am saying is that one possible reason why there is so much emotions on both sides is that we are seeing different world views crashing into each other.

The last thing I was saying is that ridiculing or deriding the other side when we don't agree is part of human nature. You may say it is the "dark" side of human nature and people in complementary medicine or specifically TT people - they are not immune from it. In this thread, we have Dr. Bonnett as an example for complementary medicine and we also have Larry Dossey who is a TT avocate who deride the other side (in a sophisticated way, I'll have to admit).

Are you saying that the advocates of TT, once they have sufficient power, will shove it down the throats of the evidence based or scientific method groups? I sure hope not because you couldn't be more incorrect. Have you ever spoken, in depth, to a TT practitioner?

No, I have not spoken to a TT practitioner. However, I would not base my impression of TT practitioner by talking to one person because that person could be a saint or a jerk and it might not be representative of the whole TT professions. It is like nurses, we have all kinds.

My comment is not base on personal interaction with any TT people. It is base on my view that TT people are also human... and being human... they are not immune to power abuse. Yes, there is a definite possibility of power abuse if TT people gain power. We will have to see. And I agree with you, if TT people really gain power someday, let's hope I am extremely extremely wrong.

Or have you listened with a closed mind, that has already decided it does not exist because it cannot be proven to your satisfaction?.

You are refering to the existence of a bio human energy field and not the effectiveness of TT, right?

Assuming you are refering to the energy field, I don't listen with a open or close mind. I listen with a critical mind. That is what nurses are to do...to think critically. My personal position at this moment is not "atheistic", but rather more "agnositics". That is base on my limited readings on both sides. Plus it is base on my own personal experiences growing up in Asia where this concept is embedded in my culture (from religion to movies to medicine). Now 5 years from now, if they have better studies on one side or another, I may change my mind.

Since you mentioned the mind being close, let's be fair... do you really think TT advocate will have an open mind that the energy field the way they understand it actually do not exisits? Or that TT is nothing more than placebo (which is very powerful)? Are they open to that possibilities?

You do bring up another question which can be quite emotional. That is - is being "open" minded always good and being "close" minded always bad?

Maybe a possible hint is "open" to what and "close" to what? For example, being "open" to Nazi Germany's ideas are probably not too advisable. Actually being "close" to these ideas may be better especially if one does not have the training to be critical.

Or maybe another more nursing related example. Take a patient who has schizophrenia... the family of the patient firmly believe that it is demon possession. Not only that, the paster also agree and the pastor furthermore believes ALL people with schizophrenia are demon possessed. Some of us might be tempted to laugh but if you are the psych nurse, that is highly not desireable. Now it can be frustrating if the pastor accuse us of being closed minded to demon possession and accuse us of being brained washed. Not only that, he started to give us proof base on his personal experience in dealing with demons. What would one do if one is that psych nurse?

When a person is "close" to an idea, one really have to ask the reason why that person is "close" to an idea instead of jumping on the person and accusing him/her being "close" minded. If the person has taken the time to evaulate and concluded (rightly or wrongly) that s/he will reject the idea, I think that is fine and I would not label or deride the person as being "close" minded.

I have little use and respect for anyone who ridicules those that disagree with that person, hence I have no respect for Dr. Bonnett. I also have no respect for those who deride a theory because it cannot be proven to their satisfaction. It is all well and good if someone does not believe in a theory, just do not deride and ridicule those that do. And that appears to be a favorite tactic with some.

This is a good reminder for all of us who are nurses or going to be nurses. We all will encounter all kinds of theories that we do not agree with. We do need to act professionally and give the other side the respect that each one of us deserve. That does not mean we have to agree with it, of course. We think critically and know why we do not agree. And if future evidence comes in, we can always change our minds.

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Specializes in Nursing assistant.

quote from Danu:The other thing I am saying is that one possible reason why there is so much emotions on both sides is that we are seeing different world views crashing into each other.

Wow! You really nailed that one. That was the light bulb for me: why are we all scratching our heads on both sides of the issue and asking ourselves" wonder why in the world they think that?" Because we are processing this in entirely different ways based on our world view.

And THANKS all of you for encouraging me. I must admit, I have always found nurses intimidating: you guys are what I wanted to be when I grew up :)

But it is great you allow me to contribute to your conversation.

no more pity party for me!

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The textbook "The Practice of Nursing Research" 4th ed grannynurse referenced a while back has some interesting stuff as I was just scanning it for fun (please rngreenhorn, do not try another informal survey :p).

The following quotes are on nursing research and the intent of the quotes are for nursing students and people who are not in nursing research but have some interests in it.

Pg 4 "...The ultimate goal of nursing is to provide evidence-based care that promotes quality outcomes for patients, families, health care providers, and the health care system (Omery & Williams, 1999) Evidence-based practice involves the use of collective research findings in (1) promoting the understanding of patients' and families' experiences with health and illness, (2)implementing effective nursing interventions to promote patient health and (3) providing quality, cost-effective care within the health care system..."

Pg 4 "...In this text, nursing research is defined as a scientific process that validates and refines existing knowledge and generates new knowledge that directly and indirectly influences nursing practice."

Pg 4 "Nursing research is essential for the development of scientific knowledge that enables nurses to provide evidence-based health care (Brown, 1999; Omery & Williams, 1999).

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.. I have always found nurses intimidating: you guys are what I wanted to be when I grew up :)

If you have the opportunity, why don't you go into nursing? Somewhere on this board, someone once mentioned a lady got her RN when she was 60.

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What I am saying is that the TT nursing diagnosis can be view (whether rightly or wrongly) as a step of toward making it legit in the nursing world by bypassing the normal evidence base process. As I mentioned before, I do think TT should go through the full blown scientific process because it is a treatment at the biological level (now if I am wrong and TT, say, claim it to be some kind of spiritual technique, then that is a whole different story in terms of having to go through the rigor of science).

The other thing I am saying is that one possible reason why there is so much emotions on both sides is that we are seeing different world views crashing into each other.

The last thing I was saying is that ridiculing or deriding the other side when we don't agree is part of human nature. You may say it is the "dark" side of human nature and people in complementary medicine or specifically TT people - they are not immune from it. In this thread, we have Dr. Bonnett as an example for complementary medicine and we also have Larry Dossey who is a TT avocate who deride the other side (in a sophisticated way, I'll have to admit).

No, I have not spoken to a TT practitioner. However, I would not base my impression of TT practitioner by talking to one person because that person could be a saint or a jerk and it might not be representative of the whole TT professions. It is like nurses, we have all kinds.

My comment is not base on personal interaction with any TT people. It is base on my view that TT people are also human... and being human... they are not immune to power abuse. Yes, there is a definite possibility of power abuse if TT people gain power. We will have to see. And I agree with you, if TT people really gain power someday, let's hope I am extremely extremely wrong.

Or have you listened with a closed mind, that has already decided it does not exist because it cannot be proven to your satisfaction?.

You are refering to the existence of a bio human energy field and not the effectiveness of TT, right?

Assuming you are refering to the energy field, I don't listen with a open or close mind. I listen with a critical mind. That is what nurses are to do...to think critically. My personal position at this moment is not "atheistic", but rather more "agnositics". That is base on my limited readings on both sides. Plus it is base on my own personal experiences growing up in Asia where this concept is embedded in my culture (from religion to movies to medicine). Now 5 years from now, if they have better studies on one side or another, I may change my mind.

Since you mentioned the mind being close, let's be fair... do you really think TT advocate will have an open mind that the energy field the way they understand it actually do not exisits? Or that TT is nothing more than placebo (which is very powerful)? Are they open to that possibilities?

You do bring up another question which can be quite emotional. That is - is being "open" minded always good and being "close" minded always bad?

Maybe a possible hint is "open" to what and "close" to what? For example, being "open" to Nazi Germany's ideas are probably not too advisable. Actually being "close" to these ideas may be better especially if one does not have the training to be critical.

Or maybe another more nursing related example. Take a patient who has schizophrenia... the family of the patient firmly believe that it is demon possession. Not only that, the paster also agree and the pastor furthermore believes ALL people with schizophrenia are demon possessed. Some of us might be tempted to laugh but if you are the psych nurse, that is highly not desireable. Now it can be frustrating if the pastor accuse us of being closed minded to demon possession and accuse us of being brained washed. Not only that, he started to give us proof base on his personal experience in dealing with demons. What would one do if one is that psych nurse?

When a person is "close" to an idea, one really have to ask the reason why that person is "close" to an idea instead of jumping on the person and accusing him/her being "close" minded. If the person has taken the time to evaulate and concluded (rightly or wrongly) that s/he will reject the idea, I think that is fine and I would not label or deride the person as being "close" minded.

This is a good reminder for all of us who are nurses or going to be nurses. We all will encounter all kinds of theories that we do not agree with. We do need to act professionally and give the other side the respect that each one of us deserve. That does not mean we have to agree with it, of course. We think critically and know why we do not agree. And if future evidence comes in, we can always change our minds.

I guess I should have phrased my question more specifically. Have you ever spoken to a TT practitioner, who has an MSN as well as extensive training in TT. Have you ever spoken to or read about the theory behind TT, other then the distorted nay sayers articles? I ask because you have such a negative attitude toward something you apparently know little about, other then the nay sayers tomes. Do you even know or understand how the idea of TT was first developed? Do you know it was developed at one of this country's leading university? One that also developed among the first advance practice programs?

I am happy to see that you are at least willing admit to the possibility of TT being proven and you might accept it in the distant future. There is hope for us all. In response to your question regarding closed mindness being bad. It is inherently bad to close your mind to any future learning. Of course you are free to disagree.

Grannynurse

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Specializes in Med-Surg.
Hey Chadash,

I have really enjoyed your posts. Please don't feel insecure about your "fit" or your contributions.

:)

Yeah that. We need all kinds in this forum, there's so many of us anyway, so many kinds of people there is no "fit" to fit into anyway. But we especially needs those of us who don't fit. :rotfl:

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Specializes in Nursing assistant.
If you have the opportunity, why don't you go into nursing? Somewhere on this board, someone once mentioned a lady got her RN when she was 60.

I was going to go back to school this past June, but the money part fell through, and now I see it was really God's leading: so many things have happened in my family and extended family this year, it would have been impossible. You all have given me a new spark, maybe it isn't now, but maybe it isn't too late!

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