Nursing diagnosis "altered energy field"

[paphgrl]

"Altered energy diagnosis"

Do you support this NANDA diagnosis? Or do you feel that this diagnosis threatens the legitamacy of our profession? Nanda still stands behind it. What are your thoughts?

paphgrl

[emjay]

It is ridiculous to accept this as a nursing diagnosis. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Therapeutic Touch is not a nurisng skill is it? Anyone can learn this technique correct? So why even make up a NANDA for it? Unless we all have to take Continuing Ed classes in becoming psychics, we won't really know if someone has altered energy fields now would we? It's bad enough that we get the short end of the stick as nurses. Now we also get to be the laughing stock?

[zenman]

The thing is... with Western medicine... it does have a built-in process to accept other ideas.

O.T. Bonnett, M.D., author of Confessions of a Healer: The Truth From An Unconventional Family Doctor, in talking about his peers, stated that, "Unfortunately, like most physicians, they were trapped into rigid patterns of thought, belief, and action bought on through years of the intellectual brainwashing that has passed for medical education. Actually, doctors are poorly educated! Their education consists of training along a very narrow path, and they wear huge intellectual blinders as they go. Anything appearing in their intellectual peripheral vision is suspect, frightening, and likely to be ignored."

More from Dr. Bonnett..."The doctors finally graduate and finish training but with little real skill in applying it in life situations, for they have been trained not to get close to or familiar with their patients. Highly trained as they may be, they are virtually isolated from feelings, the humanity of their patients, and the world in general. Many new doctors are, therefore, both frightened and defensive."

And more..."Physicians have a vested interest in rejecting new ideas. Part of the reason for this is that most doctors have little training in deductive thinking. What serves as thought is mostly recalling, with accuracy, what has been previously memorized."

And finally..."One of the most compelling reasons physicians reject new ideas is fear of change and the need to protect their block of medical information, which serves as their clearest bridge to others and the world."

[zenman]

This reminded me actually of when I was taking Aikido (which deals with energy stuff a lot). Everyone in the class can "extend" their energy it seemed, and I remember there is a great pressure for me to conform and say the same thing.

Sometimes it's just a different language "extend your energy" or "intent' etc. when you do a technique. You can "flail" your arms around in Taiji for example or do the movements with intent. One looks like a new ager, the other like real taiji!

I don't know, do you feel lots of pressure to conform?

I don't know...as I sit here in a "Big Dog" shirt and yellow crocs!

[danu3]

O.T. Bonnett, M.D., author of Confessions of a Healer: The Truth From An Unconventional Family Doctor, in talking about his peers, stated that, "Unfortunately, like most physicians, they were trapped into rigid patterns of thought, belief, and action bought on through years of the intellectual brainwashing that has passed for medical education. Actually, doctors are poorly educated! Their education consists of training along a very narrow path, and they wear huge intellectual blinders as they go. Anything appearing in their intellectual peripheral vision is suspect, frightening, and likely to be ignored."

More from Dr. Bonnett..."The doctors finally graduate and finish training but with little real skill in applying it in life situations, for they have been trained not to get close to or familiar with their patients. Highly trained as they may be, they are virtually isolated from feelings, the humanity of their patients, and the world in general. Many new doctors are, therefore, both frightened and defensive."

And more..."Physicians have a vested interest in rejecting new ideas. Part of the reason for this is that most doctors have little training in deductive thinking. What serves as thought is mostly recalling, with accuracy, what has been previously memorized."

And finally..."One of the most compelling reasons physicians reject new ideas is fear of change and the need to protect their block of medical information, which serves as their clearest bridge to others and the world."

I don't know... is that true? Anecdotly, in my experience, sometimes it is true and sometimes it is not. If you are talking about the alternatively stuff, the local Kaiser where I am has an integrative departments with doctors in it... they are fairly open to new ideas. In Stanford, they have an integrative department and they are open to new ideas. What about all the new medical procedures that are being developed, certainly not doctors who are afriad of changes. I've know at least one doctor who has no problems with NPs. As a matter of fact, he encourage people who wants to go into family practice to get an NP instead of going into medicine. He is definately not afraid of change.

Sounded like Dr Bonnett had some bad personal experience. As for brain washing, it is fairly common to accuse the established group of brain washed. The whole energy concept, is that brain washing in the East?

Is Dr Bonett saying this - those who disagree with him are afraid and brain washed? That is also not uncommon.

It may be true that they are not train to get close to families, but I know quite a few doctors directly and indirectly who has great bedside manners.

Let's see, how about doctors who also are in medical anthropology? These doctors probably are very open and knowledgable, more open than doctors who are straightly trained in the Western medicine or in Eastern healing arts.

Maybe Dr Bonnett is a bit selective in his/her evidence.

What do other think in terms of their real experience with doctors, both the good and bad?

[zenman]

It's bad enough that we get the short end of the stick as nurses. Now we also get to be the laughing stock?

That's ok But you can be laughing all the way to the bank if you look at where patients are going!

[grannynurse FNP student]

I have yet to see any practitioner of alternate medicine force their ideas on anyone. I have seen those who believe in the hard science approach ridicule and deride those who do not hold fast to their belief systems. Just review the posts on this thread and it is clearly evident.

Grannynurse:balloons:

[danu3]

I have yet to see any practitioner of alternate medicine force their ideas on anyone. I have seen those who believe in the hard science approach ridicule and deride those who do not hold fast to their belief systems. Just review the posts on this thread and it is clearly evident.

Grannynurse:balloons:

I don't think they can usually because they are not in power. But it is still possible as they are getting more powerful.

However the alter energy nursing diagnosis could be interpreted as a sneaky way of forcing one particular world view onto those who do not have the same world view. The energy concept is part of a world view of some very ancient cultures. That may be one of the reason for this huge reaction. Of course, those who reacted negatively are accused of being close minded or maybe even brain washed.

How about Dr Bonnett? I did a quick scan and he seemed to be an alternative type of doc. The quotes by Zenman earlier showed he ridicule the "scientific type". The difference is that Dr Bonnett is very sophisticated in his put down but the scientific type are more of the "caveman" style. Dr Bonnett has class (he can insult you and you don't even know it) and the "caveman" type has no class and crude.

[chadash]

Found this in an article by a Sarah Glazer, and it began to dawn on me what has been bugging me about this. There just seems to have been a real paradigm shift in how we determine what is what:

"One of the most vocal critics of therapeutic touch, Donal P. O'Mathuna, a professor of bioethics and chemistry at Mt. Carmel College of Nursing, Columbus, Ohio, calls postmodernism the "Trojan Horse" that has brought questionable practices like therapeutic touch "to prominence and acceptability on campuses today." The postmodern assertion that scientific methodology is nothing more than a cultural bias means that "bad research carries as much weight as properly structured and controlled studies."

O'Mathuna boils down the postmodern argument against scientific method in the nursing world to three basic points. Biochemical medicine is "materialistic, male-dominated and cold." Alternative medicine is the product of an oppressed minority culture in the West. Objective experimental data should be replaced with personal experience as the basis for therapy. Because Western science is morally and philosophically bankrupt, the postmodern nursing view argues, alternative healing cannot even be evaluated with scientific techniques. Larry Dossey, a proponent of therapeutic touch and editor of the journal Alternative Therapies in Health and Medicine, exemplifies this kind of philosophical name-calling. Newer alternative therapies, he asserts, "seem to have no possibility even in principle of being explained in the local, physicalistic, reductionistic framework" of modern medicine."

I think Danu was the one who brought up the term postmodern.

I guess I believe that if, for instance, drug trials were approached this way, we would be in big trouble.

And I guess I am just too old to be postmodern!

[chadash]

I have yet to see any practitioner of alternate medicine force their ideas on anyone. I have seen those who believe in the hard science approach ridicule and deride those who do not hold fast to their belief systems. Just review the posts on this thread and it is clearly evident.

Grannynurse:balloons:

I have always held that ideas are apart from my person, in other words, ideas can be bandied about, questioned, kidded about, and discarded...or embraced as valid, but always: ideas are not people!

It is ok to diminish an idea, never ok to diminish a person. I really hope I haven't done that.

My daughter and I were talking recently about how we are not at our best around women, we tend to handle things like guys do, (except for being on total overload in the maternal area and then there is that excess estrogen). I think that I may not fit in to this forum, because it is mostly women, and I never developed those skills...

I must thank those at all nurses for being really great and increasing my understanding of how things work in nursing. This is truly a great site! Nurses are the best!

[danu3]

I think that I may not fit in to this forum, because it is mostly women, and I never developed those skills...

Try the male nursing forum or male nursing student forum :)

Seriously, the male nursing related forum have females in there.

The local univerity nursing school where I go has a male nursing club. There are 4 officers in the club. 3 guys and 1 gal (yes, a female).

[danu3]

... The postmodern assertion that scientific methodology is nothing more than a cultural bias means that "bad research carries as much weight as properly structured and controlled studies."

Hmmmm... that might explain some of the studies I saw. I was wondering a while... like don't they care... if this is really accurate, then they would not care.

O'Mathuna boils down the postmodern argument against scientific method in the nursing world to three basic points. Biochemical medicine is "materialistic, male-dominated and cold." Alternative medicine is the product of an oppressed minority culture in the West.

In the West, maybe. Guess it is playing the underdog vs the great evil establishment. But in the East, it is still the dominate view even with Western medicine being around. So I wonder in the East it is still at least male-dominated? Most of the alternative stuff are from the East, we did not invent it in the West. All we did was repackage it real good in lots of cases. The world views of a number of these alternative medicine is from the East and the East is a very male-dominated in many of the Eastern societies.

Actually, anyone know how many females are now in biochemical medicine? I mean in Russia, most doctors are females (they practice Western medicine, right?).

As for being cold, that is actually true. This is where nursing comes in, nursing give it a "heart" again. Nursing look at the patient as a person, not some disease X. However, nursing do not reject medicine and science. Nursing do reject the implied philosophy of medicine and science in terms of looking at a person as nothing more than a bunch of biochemical processes. But this nursing philosophy existed before all the alternative stuff came onboard.

Because Western science is morally and philosophically bankrupt, the postmodern nursing view argues, alternative healing cannot even be evaluated with scientific techniques. Larry Dossey, a proponent of therapeutic touch and editor of the journal Alternative Therapies in Health and Medicine, exemplifies this kind of philosophical name-calling. Newer alternative therapies, he asserts, "seem to have no possibility even in principle of being explained in the local, physicalistic, reductionistic framework" of modern medicine."

Another good example of very sophisticated derision of another world view (..., bankrupt, reductionistic...). Just a fancy way of saying it won't pass the rigor of scientific rigor. So what do you do, get rid of it and set yourself up in a pedestal looking down at people who disagree with you.

And I guess I am just too old to be postmodern!

Premodern? :)

[rngreenhorn]

Hey danu and chadash... I think you are the guys who kicked my butt in debate in high school.

Seriously, thought I'd let you know I've enjoyed your commentary.

Smiles and cheers.