Terminated for typing a petition

[cdsable]

Hi,

Just want to get some feedback on losing my job. I worked in a nursing home for over 4 years. A patient asked me could I type, I said yes, he wanted me to type a petition to get another nurse back that had left or resigned her job due to continual harrassment from her supervisor. Her supervisor also is an LPN. The supervisor is black, the other nurse is white. The nurse who left had reported the other nurse several times and received no help about the harrassment. Anyway, I typed the petition off duty what he asked me to type. I gave it to him the next morning and he went around the facility all day and got over 50 signatures from other patients, staff, and family members to try to get this nurse back. The nurse was very good, lots of experience, very caring, and honest. A couple days later another LPN supervisor called me at home and said I needed to come in to a meeting to discuss what went on over the weekend. She said the company wanted it done today. When I got there, four nurses were in the room and asked me what happenned and I told them as I told you above. The DON gave me a termination paper stating I had caused a great disruption in the homelike environment and helped circulate the petition and typed it. I did type it, I did not circulate it or cause a diruption. They are the ones who caused a disruption. They want to keep this nurse, get rid of the older nurses and hire new people for her to boss. I usually get along with everyone and all the patients love me and I love them. This has really hurt me alot. Does anyone know if there is anything that can be done about this kind of treatment? I have reported it to the main office and they are doing an investigation. The Dept of Labor stated it is their company and they can do whatever they want. Now I have no job, no insurance for typing a petition to help someone else. Life doesnt seem fair sometimes. Thanks for any help you can offer.

[RosesrReder, BSN, MSN, RN]

I am sorry for your job loss. Best wishes to you in the future.

[sirI, MSN, APRN, NP]

it is not illegal to make unprovable comments about someone.

yes, it can be illegal. if the comment is derogatory, it is illegal and there is no need to prove that. just that the statement was made.

so even if she did say or write that this nurse was wronged by management, and discriminated aginst, and was fired with no cause; it still can't be considered salnder or libel (slander in written form), unless she knew that this things were not true.

actually, you have your terminology incorrect. libel is the written form. slander is the oral form.

i can say that anyone is a tramp, and i think she/he has had sex will hundreds of people for things like a sandwich. and guess what, if that is what i think, and i don't know it to be false, well hey that is my opinion and is protected by my first amendment right.

this is false. it is this statement about a woman that will be held as slanderous in a court of law. there are four (4) statements (of your opinion) that the plantiff need only say were derogatory and you would be successfully sued in court:

having committed a crime

having a loathsome disease (such as aids)

being unchaste (in many jurisdictions this still applies only to females)

being bad at their trade or business

"united states law dictates that for something to be considered libel it must be proven that the one making the libelous charges did so with malicious intent and with full knowledge that the statements were false. furthermore personal opinion is protected as a first amendment right."

yes, but, if the "opinion" is defamatory per se and inherently derogatory, the plaintiff need only prove the statement was made.

[chris_at_lucas_RN, RN]

The patient you typed the petition for sounds like he had a lot of personal ability.

He might have handwritten the petition.

Or he might have just approached the nurses/supervisors (and encouraged other patients to do the same) asking to have that nurse back.

It does look like you are stuck, but that your heart is in the right place.

If you feel you were unfairly terminated, you should check with an attorney. At least (maybe) you can keep the LTC from giving you a bad reference.

Meantime, you and your friend can look for positions together. Sometimes having to face this sort of thing alone is overwhelming, and you two don't have that problem.

May you find two good slots in a good place, and have a terrific New Year. You sound like a very caring and valuable nurse.

[Catsmeow]

yes, it can be illegal. if the comment is derogatory, it is illegal and there is no need to prove that. just that the statement was made.

actually, you have your terminology incorrect. libel is the written form. slander is the oral form.

this is false. it is this statement about a woman that will be held as slanderous in a court of law. there are four (4) statements (of your opinion) that the plantiff need only say were derogatory and you would be successfully sued in court:

having committed a crime

having a loathsome disease (such as aids)

being unchaste (in many jurisdictions this still applies only to females)

being bad at their trade or business

yes, but, if the "opinion" is defamatory per se and inherently derogatory, the plaintiff need only prove the statement was made.

thanks siri for that clarification.

cats

[cdsable]

I would accept the referral if YOU are paying for the lawyer! It will look bad if the patient pays for the services. That may go without saying but just in case.

It's awful that you lost yout job over this. I mean it's NOT as if you were typing it a work!!!!!

Some states are "fire-at-will" and it won't matter much if your friend was fired due to harrassment or not.

The only thing I would recomend is to get your RN and be the harassing LPN supervisor's boss!

Best of luck to you!

Thanks Whiskeygirl for your support. I really appreciate someone who tries to understand instead of digging and finding fault for everything. Bless you!!

[Catsmeow]

It is not illegal to make unprovable comments about someone. It it illegal to make comments that you know are are false, and you are doing so with malicious intent. So even if she did say or write that this nurse was wronged by management, and discriminated aginst, and was fired with no cause; it still can't be considered salnder or libel (slander in written form), unless she knew that this things were not true. I can say that anyone is a tramp, and I think she/he has had sex will hundreds of people for things like a sandwich. And guess what, if that is what I think, and I don't KNOW it to be false, well hey that is my opinion and is protected by my first amendment right. I know that to be the case, because of my own personal experince with the suject matter. If anyone can't tell,I speak my mind and usually don't hold my tongue for anyone.

What you are saying above wouldn't be considered your opinion merely, because you didn't restrict yourself to saying only that the woman was a "bad person" (opinion) you went on to give examples of fact that can be proved or disproved. There's a really fine line here, and maybe I can give an example:

a) "She is a bad person." is opinion because there are no facts involved.

b) "She is a prostitute who accepts compensation for sexual acts" is defamation unless you can prove it is true or that there is some strong indication in the way she lives her life which would lead anyone to reasonably conclude she was a prostitute.

It's not up to the woman to prove her innocence, it's up to you to prove what you said was accurate, if it went to court.

Free Speech is like many of our rights, it often ends where another person's right to another freedom begins, and in this case Free Speech is checked by a person's right to live without being defamed. We have a lot more leeway when it comes to public figures, but I still read about celebrities winning lawsuits all the time against media companies that publish stories about them being "unchaste." If the media company cannot prove the story was true, they lose the lawsuit, and often tons of money.

Furthermore, the burden of proof rests on the person who made the statement, opposite to what you normally would expect. In other words, if you made these above statements, the innocence of the woman in question is assumed, and it's up to you to prove she is not. All the woman need prove is that you did make the statement, and that her life or livelihood has been damaged in some way. That's why I said even an unproven statement can be illegal, and that it's wise to have proof to back up statements before you make them.

Hope this helps with understanding my concerns, I mean well when I'm trying to relate these things, not to make anyone feel worse. :icon_hug:

Cats

[cdsable]

Hi to all,

Update, the company is still investigating the termination. There have been 7 nurses resign, does that tell you something about the management in this facility. They are backstabbing, gossipping low down people. They are not there because they care, they are there for the $$$. The patient who asked me to type the letter cannot write or feed himself. The other nurse who resigned because management would not do anything about the so called harrassment by her "spervisor". She had reported it on several occasions. The company is also doing an investigation for her and several other reports involving this facility. Thanks to everyone who has been kind and supportive about my job loss, I really appreciate your understanding. Have a wonderful week!!

[purplemania, BSN, RN]

did you type this petition on your own time? I think there are other avenues to address complaints - like thru the Board of Nursing. Involving patients is just not ethical in my opinion.

[Catsmeow]

Hi to all,

Update, the company is still investigating the termination. There have been 7 nurses resign, does that tell you something about the management in this facility. They are backstabbing, gossipping low down people. They are not there because they care, they are there for the $$$. The patient who asked me to type the letter cannot write or feed himself. The other nurse who resigned because management would not do anything about the so called harrassment by her "spervisor". She had reported it on several occasions. The company is also doing an investigation for her and several other reports involving this facility. Thanks to everyone who has been kind and supportive about my job loss, I really appreciate your understanding. Have a wonderful week!!

Sounds like a sinking ship.

Best wishes in troubled times,

Cats

[RosesrReder, BSN, MSN, RN]

did you type this petition on your own time? I think there are other avenues to address complaints - like thru the Board of Nursing. Involving patients is just not ethical in my opinion.

I believe she did mention typing it on her own time.

I agree with not involving patients even if they offer themselves.

[Keysnurse2008]

hi to all,

update, the company is still investigating the termination. there have been 7 nurses resign, does that tell you something about the management in this facility. they are backstabbing, gossipping low down people. they are not there because they care, they are there for the $$$. the patient who asked me to type the letter cannot write or feed himself. the other nurse who resigned because management would not do anything about the so called harrassment by her "spervisor". she had reported it on several occasions. the company is also doing an investigation for her and several other reports involving this facility. thanks to everyone who has been kind and supportive about my job loss, i really appreciate your understanding. have a wonderful week!!

my sympathy to you.....i know your heart was in the right place....but bc..of the pt population the petition can be misconstrued (msp??) and made to "become" something entirely different than you ..or your patient had intended. my advice is never let anyone assist you with legal fees...esp the pt at this point.

if...you have enough concrete proof to validate that indeed this nurse was being harassed....youd have legal protection....and that is probably the only reason your company is even looking into the termination. provide them with proof of that nurses harassment. thats my advice....take care

[katfishLPN]

Ohh my, a lot of these replies really stun me. Were you wrong in any way shape or form? In my opinion NOOOOO!!! First off a patient asked you for a favor that not only was not intended to hurt anyone, it didn't. This is the same as if a patient ask you to type a letter to his/her family. I would assume that you used his/her word in his/her petition. Then you signed it. Well, so what. You supported something that you believed in. Was it illegal? NOOOOOOOO!!! They fired you and didn't have proper grounds to do so after 4 years of service. It doesn't matter why the other nurse got fired or quit, that is not the point. A petition is a form of speech, and in this country we have the freedom of speech, as long as it is not slanderous. I say forget about them ,and find a new job. That is my advice for you and I will leave that as my advice for you. As for me, I get up in the morning,suit up, get over there, and run it down to management where they can stick their termination papers. And on the way out I would make a call in front of the highest level of management that I can reach, call my friend over at state, and tell her every critical deficiency that I've seen in that last six months, tell her to pop up any time to check it out, and walk out with a smile.

No it is NOT like typing a letter to a family member. These are totally different things.