We had this huge discussion at work today, and i thought i'd get your opinions.
The statement was this: "We have to many people becoming nurses for the money. Its not like it used to be, where a nurse chose to be a nurse because they liked helping people. Its all about the money,."
We were talking about the increased patient complaints, and an older nurse stated the above and thats the reason for increased patient complaints.
Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
Just me:
I just can't see anything redemptive in allowing our fellow human beings suffer needlessly or intractibly in their end of life. (or in being the sufferee). I think it borders on criminal to knowingly allow it-----and the God I know (just me again) would want us to do all we could to alleviate the suffering of those who depend upon us---those unable to do it for themselves. I don't believe God wants us to suffer in the end of life, however inevitible it may seem to be. That is a God I don't believe exists.
Now, if a person refuses all intervention and makes the choice to suffer based on his/her personal choices and/or religious beliefs, I believe they should be allowed to follow that path. (after making legal arrangements that hold up to do so). But that gets into medico-ethical issues that are VERY complicated, doesn't it?
Calling the Catholic theological position on the value of suffering for the Christian hooey is insulting. IMO, all of our experiences in life have meaning and significance, even as we approach death. We are to offer up any suffering that we must endure to God, just as Christ did.
As far as Stichies claim, I find it unbelievable. As I posted, the Catholic position on management of end of life pain states that it is to be relieved, even if relief of that pain hastens death as an unintended consequence.
Speaking of Catholic hospitals, my husband died of cancer in one, and I saw nothing of that attitude. I also ended up working for that hospital. Yes, there were problems, as there is in any institution, but the assistance for those facing the end of life was compassionate, as well as the pastoral care.
here is the excerpt from the united states conference of catholic bishops, from the [color=#cc3333]ethical and religious directives for catholic health care services, fourth edition, from the section titled issues in care for the dying
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[color=#cc3333]61) patients should be kept as free of pain as possible so that they may die comfortably and with dignity, and in the place where they wish to die. since a person has the right to prepare for his or her death while fully conscious, he or she should not be deprived of consciousness without a compelling reason. medicines capable of alleviating or suppressing pain may be given to a dying person, even if this therapy may indirectly shorten the person's life so long as the intent is not to hasten death. patients experiencing suffering that cannot be alleviated should be helped to appreciate the christian understanding of redemptive suffering
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[color=#cc3333]i'm reposting it for everyone's benefit here. i don't see anything in this statement that says we are to make pts suffer for their own good. for more on this, click on the link.
Specializes in ER (new), Respitory/Med Surg floor.
Calling the Catholic theological position on the value of suffering for the Christian hooey is insulting. .
I don't think the one who posted that you wrote this reply was insulting just stating their belief. I think the poster thinks that idea is ridiculous and should not be used at the op's hospital. The poster is not condemning all cathlolics or religion just that one aspect they feel should not influence pain management. That poster is not stating one would be wrong if they wanted to do that for personal reasons but as healthcare professionals should not dictate pain managment. Don't you think suicide bombers dying for their belief is "hooey!" There's a difference in totally disagreeing and disliking with certain ideologies than just ex discriminating someone just because they are a certain race.
Specializes in ER (new), Respitory/Med Surg floor.
I don't think the one who posted that you wrote this reply was insulting just stating their belief. I think the poster thinks that idea is ridiculous and should not be used at the op's hospital. The poster is not condemning all cathlolics or religion just that one aspect they feel should not influence pain management. That poster is not stating one would be wrong if they wanted to do that for personal reasons but as healthcare professionals should not dictate pain managment. Don't you think suicide bombers dying for their belief is "hooey!" There's a difference in totally disagreeing and disliking with certain ideologies than just ex discriminating someone just because they are a certain race.
I think this is a huge reason why religion is seperate from state.
here is the excerpt from the united states conference of catholic bishops, from the [color=#cc3333]ethical and religious directives for catholic health care services, fourth edition, from the section titled issues in care for the dying
[color=#cc3333]
[color=#cc3333]61) patients should be kept as free of pain as possible so that they may die comfortably and with dignity, and in the place where they wish to die. since a person has the right to prepare for his or her death while fully conscious, he or she should not be deprived of consciousness without a compelling reason. medicines capable of alleviating or suppressing pain may be given to a dying person, even if this therapy may indirectly shorten the person's life so long as the intent is not to hasten death. patients experiencing suffering that cannot be alleviated should be helped to appreciate the christian understanding of redemptive suffering
[color=#cc3333]
[color=#cc3333]i'm reposting it for everyone's benefit here. i don't see anything in this statement that says we are to make pts suffer for their own good. for more on this, click on the link.
Based on the statement from the conference of bishops, the way I understand it, pain is to be alleviated, if possible. The idea of redemptive suffering is only mentioned with regard to pain that CANNOT be alleviated. In this case, the redemptive nature of suffering is an attempt to help the patient to deal with and accept their pain. It isn't, as some have stated, a cruel withholding of care, but merely a means of helping someone deal with suffering by assuring them that they will be ultimately rewarded for it.
I'm not suggesting that anyone who doesn't believe in it should, just explaining in a different way. Obviously, as with any statement or explanation of religious beliefs, there is no way everyone will ever agree on the subject.
SmilingBluEyes
20,964 Posts
Just me:
I just can't see anything redemptive in allowing our fellow human beings suffer needlessly or intractibly in their end of life. (or in being the sufferee). I think it borders on criminal to knowingly allow it-----and the God I know (just me again) would want us to do all we could to alleviate the suffering of those who depend upon us---those unable to do it for themselves. I don't believe God wants us to suffer in the end of life, however inevitible it may seem to be. That is a God I don't believe exists.
Now, if a person refuses all intervention and makes the choice to suffer based on his/her personal choices and/or religious beliefs, I believe they should be allowed to follow that path. (after making legal arrangements that hold up to do so). But that gets into medico-ethical issues that are VERY complicated, doesn't it?
I don't pretend to have all the answers, alas.