We had this huge discussion at work today, and i thought i'd get your opinions.
The statement was this: "We have to many people becoming nurses for the money. Its not like it used to be, where a nurse chose to be a nurse because they liked helping people. Its all about the money,."
We were talking about the increased patient complaints, and an older nurse stated the above and thats the reason for increased patient complaints.
I'm from Texas which is about as anti-union a place as you can get.
I have to say that I'm very wary of unions. The problem with unions is they take on a life of their own and you end up battling not only biases from employers, but biases from unions, too (such as BSN-only philosophies and political action that has more to do with the left wing politizations of those who control my money than with nursing issues).
If I thought that we had nowhere to go but down, I'd say bring on the unions!
But the shortage, whether real or not, affects policy. And things do change under duress. Look at wages the last decade. Look at hospitals that try to get 'magnet' status to protect their back ends from the 'shortage'.
Before I caved and bought into all the bad that goes with the good from unions, I am willing to wait a few more years to see if the good becomes a necessity from employers finally waking up and realizing that paying agency is bleeding them dry and maybe, just maybe, protecting their staff is a better way to go.
I know I know, management thinking of nurses as their greatest asset instead of their greatest liability is maybe a pipe dream.
But we have made some progress, even if it's like pulling teeth. Before I give unions control of my career, I'm willing to give that progress a chance to see where it goes . . .
Very interesting, I may say...however can you fire your boss? Cause a union messes with employee's too much they can be fired. However I do have to agree...that with unions alot of politcal things behind the scenes and also majority is what rules...but that is democracy, nothing is perfect. I personally just have had better justice with unions. One instance plays in my mind, the med-surg floor was loaded with pt's and pt's on waiting list. Policy made from the union was...if staffing is down 2 nurses, the nurse manager must find replacement or work the floor herself. Well she couldn't find staff/agency and she was there with us that extremely busy night, we could tell she wasn't happy..but you know the next day...she realized how hard it was to work one nurse short and from that point on, she would step on the floor, didn't matter what shift...she helped us. But they would have never taken place had there been no union. Or the fact of discrimination against a nurse who had major diagnosis, sickle cell for one, who was fired for being sick 4 times in one year...the union got her job back and all the lost pay. Ya so I am ready to take the bad with the good, mainly cause I haven't seen too much bad. But I can see your point also....
Annette(beginning to realize I talk way too much and think about way too much, LMAO)
I'm from Texas which is about as anti-union a place as you can get.
I have to say that I'm very wary of unions. The problem with unions is they take on a life of their own and you end up battling not only biases from employers, but biases from unions, too (such as BSN-only philosophies and political action that has more to do with the left wing politizations of those who control my money than with nursing issues).
If I thought that we had nowhere to go but down, I'd say bring on the unions!
But the shortage, whether real or not, affects policy. And things do change under duress. Look at wages the last decade. Look at hospitals that try to get 'magnet' status to protect their back ends from the 'shortage'.
Before I caved and bought into all the bad that goes with the good from unions, I am willing to wait a few more years to see if the good becomes a necessity from employers finally waking up and realizing that paying agency is bleeding them dry and maybe, just maybe, protecting their staff is a better way to go.
I know I know, management thinking of nurses as their greatest asset instead of their greatest liability is maybe a pipe dream.
But we have made some progress, even if it's like pulling teeth. Before I give unions control of my career, I'm willing to give that progress a chance to see where it goes . . .
Before I caved and bought into all the bad that goes with the good from unions, I am willing to wait a few more years to see if the good becomes a necessity from employers finally waking up and realizing that paying agency is bleeding them dry and maybe, just maybe, protecting their staff is a better way to go.
Hmmm. I'm from TX, too, though I'm considering making a move to CA.
Corporate management will never wake up. Reason: although they are populated by human beings, corporations are not human. They are money-making machines for Wall-Street and its stockholders. When they don't perform, they lose. How they "win" is by providing a service at the lowest possible cost that people want to pay money for. Again, it isn't human -- it's a machine. The managers can't help it -- if they don't treat us like big expensive liabilities, the upper management will gladly find another who will.
Healthcare cannot be considered immune to the economy -- it's totally dependent on a robust economy to have its own cash-flow. When US manufacturing stagnated d/t cheaper imports, corporations looked to cut costs -- and the most expensive liability is usually the labor force. When the government (through corporate pressure) opened the flood gates through NAFTA, GATT, etc., laboring men and women lost as their jobs went south and to Asia. Opening the "flood gates" for immigration will do the same to our well-paying jobs -- especially if we wait around for the suits on Wall Street to "do the right thing." When have "they" ever stood for anything other than profit? If working men and women had never organized (never, ever) -- working conditions here would be horrendous. It did not change because management grew a heart -- it changed when labor grew a fist.
Don't get me wrong -- American economic genius has made this country the powerhouse that it is, but not one worker protection simply emerged because of the kindness of the board room. It worked through the pressure of organized labor on Washington -- a pressure that no longer exists.
there are other pressures out there besides unions.
That's why i'm fond of saying, hoorah for the shortage.
Foreign help is a bandaid that, because it's won't solve the problem; it isn't a threat. For every nurse that works out, there's one that couldn't make the cultural shift and 2 that never made it to the States.
The suits had it easier in the 90's when the dynamics in Canada brought down so many culturally similar, language proficient "foreigners". But those dynamics have changed.
It's not quite so easy or cheap to bring foreigners in from across the ocean.
For the foreign nurses who get here an make it, what an American Dream. Good for you.
there are other pressures out there besides unions.
That's why i'm fond of saying, hoorah for the shortage.
Foreign help is a bandaid that, because it's won't solve the problem; it isn't a threat. For every nurse that works out, there's one that couldn't make the cultural shift and 2 that never made it to the States.
The suits had it easier in the 90's when the dynamics in Canada brought down so many culturally similar, language proficient "foreigners". But those dynamics have changed.
It's not quite so easy or cheap to bring foreigners in from across the ocean.
For the foreign nurses who get here an make it, what an American Dream. Good for you.
~faith,
Timothy.
I say welcome to America, too. I have no beef with immigrants individually -- we are a nation of immigrants. What I have a beef with is immigration policy; which governs the rate of immigration and is often "changed" to benefit certain industries. I remember when I came into the nursing field, they were talking about the coming "shortage," while it certainly seemed that we were in a glut. Half of the hospital I worked in at the time were immigrants, and they were there due to a liberal immigration policy (at the time) set forth by the prior 12 years of the Reagan/Bush administration. It was very difficult working there -- in four years, my salary only increased a dollar, and most of the American nurses left within a year or two for better opportunities. Now, we all got along well, but there was a difference -- they were sponsored by the hospital, and couldn't leave employment there until they got their green card, which apparently doesn't happen for about 2-3 years. This hospital loved these "indentured servants" who couldn't leave and who didn't dare talk back -- and they could have cared less for those who could and did. My director didn't say a word when I handed in my resignation -- no problem to her, my replacement was already on the plane.
The Clinton administration (despite his traitorous signing of NAFTA) did manage to tighten up nurse immigration -- and, yes, it is much more difficult to bring them over. About 5 years ago, the place I was working sent a veiled threat to our then greatly-numbered "perdiem" and "agency" staff that they had hired 100 FT nurses from various countries. Well, naturally, most of us bit the bullet and went back FT. It took several years, and we eventually got about 30-40 of them.
This administration is seeking ways to change immigration policy -- Bush has tried to liberalize immigration again to "match willing workers with employers." Nothing in America is set in stone -- it's all a matter of legislation. Believe me, the hospitals are more than willing to pay for the airfare, and NCSBN is already setting up NCLEX learning centers in foreign countries in anticipation.
Okay, my mouth is shut for the night . . . been nice hearing the different opinions!
The funny thing is that other "professions" are unionized without the blue-collar stigma. Teachers form one of the most powerful unions, as any state governor will tell you
Unions are also why teachers also have traditionally made more than nurses, according to the U.S. Health Department. About $14,000 more a year, in fact.
So ... if we're in agreement that everybody is motivated by money, at least to some extent ...
What are the real reasons for these kinds of complaints?
Personally, I think some people are threatened by all of the new people coming into the profession. It's almost like they're a member of an exclusive club and they don't want anybody else to join.
Or maybe they're worried about competition. Afterall, wages are finally starting to improve after a long drought. Maybe they're worried about new entrants driving down wages.
Of course, then they'd complain about short staffing and how it makes their job so difficult ... I sometimes think you could move heaven and earth and they'd still complain.
At any rate ...that's the real question, IMHO.
Interesting things to ponder and I can't really find a good arguement to disagree.
Especially agree with the complainers. Complainers are going to find something to complain about no matter what.
:uhoh21:
ZASHAGALKA, RN
3,322 Posts
I'm from Texas which is about as anti-union a place as you can get.
I have to say that I'm very wary of unions. The problem with unions is they take on a life of their own and you end up battling not only biases from employers, but biases from unions, too (such as BSN-only philosophies and political action that has more to do with the left wing politizations of those who control my money than with nursing issues).
If I thought that we had nowhere to go but down, I'd say bring on the unions!
But the shortage, whether real or not, affects policy. And things do change under duress. Look at wages the last decade. Look at hospitals that try to get 'magnet' status to protect their back ends from the 'shortage'.
Before I caved and bought into all the bad that goes with the good from unions, I am willing to wait a few more years to see if the good becomes a necessity from employers finally waking up and realizing that paying agency is bleeding them dry and maybe, just maybe, protecting their staff is a better way to go.
I know I know, management thinking of nurses as their greatest asset instead of their greatest liability is maybe a pipe dream.
But we have made some progress, even if it's like pulling teeth. Before I give unions control of my career, I'm willing to give that progress a chance to see where it goes . . .
~faith,
Timothy.