Nurse Imposters

[Nursemccaleb]

Hey there! I'm a nurse from Mississippi. I recently called a doctors office from the nursing home I work at and asked his receptionist to speak with the nurse to relay a message to the doctor in regards to the patient's care. Instead of letting me speak to the nurse she transferred me to the phlebotomist who answered "this is Doctor Bolder's nurse Jamie. Can I help you? I know her personally and am aware she is not the nurse and requested again to speak to the nurse. She replied "this is the nurse" i just ignored it and said ok well can you let the doctor know about this concern. She called me back a minute later a third time identifying herself as the nurse with a new medication order. She sounded confused as she was giving said order bc she said the medications name and gave no further details. I asked what dose? how often? How long? She sounded as if she was making it up as she went. This whole thing has made me uncomfortable. I was wondering your thoughts on this issue. I find it very disrespectful to claim you are a nurse when you have not underwent the amount of training, passed a licensure exam, and all the many other things it takes to be able to call oneself a nurse.

[Julius Seizure]

(h) Willfully aid or abet any person who violates any provisions of this article

But would not reporting be "aid or abeting" ?

I really don't know what the legal definition of that is.

Aid and Abet

To assist another in the commission of a crime by words or conduct.

The person who aids and abets participates in the commission of a crime by performing some Overt Act or by giving advice or encouragement. He or she must share the criminal intent of the person who actually commits the crime, but it is not necessary for the aider and abettor to be physically present at the scene of the crime.

An aider and abettor is a party to a crime and may be criminally liable as a principal, an Accessory before the fact, or an accessory after the fact.

West's Encyclopedia of American Law, edition 2.

[Daisy4RN]

Aid and Abet

To assist another in the commission of a crime by words or conduct.

The person who aids and abets participates in the commission of a crime by performing some Overt Act or by giving advice or encouragement. He or she must share the criminal intent of the person who actually commits the crime, but it is not necessary for the aider and abettor to be physically present at the scene of the crime.

An aider and abettor is a party to a crime and may be criminally liable as a principal, an Accessory before the fact, or an accessory after the fact.

West's Encyclopedia of American Law, edition 2.

I guess I should have clarified. I understand the definition but wonder about the application of the law in this case.

it probably wouldn't fit the legal definition (?) but what about the BON. For instance if this person had someone else complain about something she said as a "nurse" then stated she didn't know she wasn't supposed to do that and dragged the OP into the mix stating well this RN knew I was using that title and never said anything, or worse makes a complaint to the BON, then I am wondering if the OP (or any of us) could possibly end up with BON issues (because of knowing and not reporting).

[FolksBtrippin, BSN, RN]

If, in the act of doing her job (for which she gets paid), she calls herself a nurse, she is misrepresenting herself for financial gain.

Nope. That's not fraud. Unless she is pretending to be a nurse to get paid more.

Anyway, you're preaching to the choir about what's appropriate. Definitely always inappropriate for an MA to call herself a nurse. Just not always illegal, everywhere. Maybe it should be though.

[TriciaJ, RN]

This wasn't that big of a deal that I feel I have to report it. It's not like she wanted to start someone with a GI bleed on a high dose of Coumadin with no pt/inr. This was a topical itch cream. I am aware it's illegal but do I want her locked up like a criminal? No. It just rubbed me the wrong way bc I love nursing. I put my heart into it and I feel there's a chain of command between medical professionals. I don't get why she lied either when she knows I know the truth.

She's not going to be "locked up like a criminal". It also doesn't matter what you "feel". This doctor's office is breaking the law and could face serious consequences. It doesn't matter whether it's coumadin or itch cream. Do not accept telephone orders from someone who is not qualified to relay them and who clearly doesn't know what she is doing. The best place to start is your management call that doctor and let him know what is wrong with letting non-nurses self-identify as nurses. Give him an opportunity to do the right thing and protect yourself from liability.

[TriciaJ, RN]

I guess I am confused on how it's illegal. Because, for example, I have a friend who is not an RN or LPN but she's worked for a gastroenterologist for years, and she calls herself "Dr. Reed's nurse." And he refers to her as his "nurse." She has a degree in accounting (doesn't use this degree). If I called that office and asked to speak to the nurse I wouldn't feel it inappropriate if she came to the phone as the nurse. Yet as I posted above about my son's peds office, it's abused in many situations.

It's illegal because the state laws say it is. It doesn't matter whether you feel it's inappropriate - it's illegal. The person calling herself a nurse when she isn't is committing fraud. The public has the right to know whom they are dealing with. They have the right to expect that the person purporting to be a nurse has met the requirements to be one.

Think of any other occupation with an education requirement. If you get your car worked on by a "licensed mechanic" who never had any license or mechanic's training would you consider yourself ripped off if something fell off your car and you got in a wreck? If you take your taxes to a CPA and then get audited and the "CPA" was an administrative assistant would you be upset?

If I take healthcare advice from a "nurse" who isn't a nurse, who do I blame when I have a bad outcome? There is a reason we have education and licensing for different professions. It doesn't matter who's "okay" with someone committing fraud; it's still fraud.

[Nunya, BSN]

I did accepted the order after speaking to my supervisor. Her response was "I didn't know Jamie wasn't his nurse. She gives orders from him all the time." I spoke with our nurse practitioner also and she said it's ok to accept orders from medical assistants and other non licensed clinic workers but it was wrong of her to identify as a nurse.[/quote

I would not accept orders from a non-licensed person. If they get it wrong, and you don't catch it guess who might also become a non-licensed person? And if the NP told me it was ok I would tell her the next time it happens that it's all hers.

[Devnation]

In my state, nurse is a protected title and the BON reserves the right to file an injunction for fraudulent uasge. The penalty fine is up to $20,000. Most states do not have a law regarding who can give verbal orders. However, multiple professional organizations recommend that verbal orders should only be accepted from a physician, APRN, or PA. This could be considered a care standard, something a reasonable and prudent practitioner would do. Meaning if you do accept a verbal order from unlicensed licensed personnel you could be opening yourself up to malpractice charges.

If I were in your shoes, I would report this to the BON under the guise of asking their guidance. I would explain the situation and ask how to proceed. I would then inform my supervisor of their advice and act accordingly. I think this needs to be done regardless of your personal connection to this woman. This is a matter of safety and liability.

[Guest219794]

She's not going to be "locked up like a criminal". It also doesn't matter what you "feel". This doctor's office is breaking the law and could face serious consequences. It doesn't matter whether it's coumadin or itch cream. Do not accept telephone orders from someone who is not qualified to relay them and who clearly doesn't know what she is doing. The best place to start is your management call that doctor and let him know what is wrong with letting non-nurses self-identify as nurses. Give him an opportunity to do the right thing and protect yourself from liability.

Has it been established that this is in, in fact, one of the states in which this is illegal?

As far as serious consequences- I really doubt it. Or any consequences.

Any of the examples of any prosecution have to do with egregious abuses, like getting hired as an RN without being an RN, that sort of thing. But what the OP's hubby's baby mama did is common practice, happening thousands of times daily.

I just don't see a prosecutor or police force putting a whole lot of effort into this one. "My husband's ex-wife said she is a nurse, but she isn't". I am just thinking that the task force assigned to this case is going to be kind of small. Granted, the sting operation would be easy- just call most Dr offices and ask for a nurse. Or better, go in wearing a wire. Just not happening.

It is annoying, inappropriate, and unsafe. But I don't think anybody, other than a bunch of nurses cares.

And, I suspect, that legally speaking, there is a big difference in identify as a "nurse", as opposed to a "registered nurse".

According to the Cambridge dictionary, the villain in this story is, in fact, a nurse:

"a person trained to care for people who are ill or not able to care for themselves because of injury or old age, and who may also help doctors in treating people:

[TriciaJ, RN]

Has it been established that this is in, in fact, one of the states in which this is illegal?

As far as serious consequences- I really doubt it. Or any consequences.

Any of the examples of any prosecution have to do with egregious abuses, like getting hired as an RN without being an RN, that sort of thing. But what the OP's hubby's baby mama did is common practice, happening thousands of times daily.

I just don't see a prosecutor or police force putting a whole lot of effort into this one. "My husband's ex-wife said she is a nurse, but she isn't". I am just thinking that the task force assigned to this case is going to be kind of small. Granted, the sting operation would be easy- just call most Dr offices and ask for a nurse. Or better, go in wearing a wire. Just not happening.

It is annoying, inappropriate, and unsafe. But I don't think anybody, other than a bunch of nurses cares.

And, I suspect, that legally speaking, there is a big difference in identify as a "nurse", as opposed to a "registered nurse".

According to the Cambridge dictionary, the villain in this story is, in fact, a nurse:

"a person trained to care for people who are ill or not able to care for themselves because of injury or old age, and who may also help doctors in treating people:

It depends how it reads in a given state's Nurse Practice Act. And no, the police wouldn't be who to call. It is reported to the BON. They would contact the employer and explain why non-nurses can't self-identify as nurses. Most BONs have the ability to levy civil fines. The reason it isn't prosecuted very often is because it's seldom reported. We're too likely to write it off as annoying or disrespectful. It is illegal.

[Horseshoe, BSN, RN]

And, I suspect, that legally speaking, there is a big difference in identify as a "nurse", as opposed to a "registered nurse".

Not in my state. You cannot call yourself "a nurse" unless you are licensed. It's not necessary to use the word "registered" in order to be in violation of the law.

[Doumbia]

I don't think it is legal to call oneself a "nurse" unless they are actually a licensed nurse, RN or LPN. Calling Yourself a Nurse Is a Crime, No Less

In WA state it's pretty common unfortunately for MA's to do phone triage in clinics.

It's considered outside their scope of practice- previously when they were "certified" and also now when "licensed." But physicians persist in allowing this kind of stuff, probably it saves them $$ in the short run.

Particularly a phlebotomist? Bizarre that she would even want to call herself a nurse.

I wouldn't feel comfortable taking an order from her by phone at all. Often when the orders are faxed to clinics, staff fill out and return/ those staff may be MA or nurse, in that case you would have no way of knowing, but by phone...

[Guest219794]

It depends how it reads in a given state's Nurse Practice Act. And no, the police wouldn't be who to call. It is reported to the BON. They would contact the employer and explain why non-nurses can't self-identify as nurses. Most BONs have the ability to levy civil fines. The reason it isn't prosecuted very often is because it's seldom reported. We're too likely to write it off as annoying or disrespectful. It is illegal.

This is the part I don't get.

The other day I did a lousy job using a drugstore temporary filling in my mouth after convincing myself I was a dentist. If I get a call from the Board of Dentistry telling me I owe them money, I am not paying it.

What authority does the BON have over non nurses?

We are on page 7 of a thread, and unless I missed it there aren't any examples of the behavior cited being disciplined. And certainly no examples of anybody being treated as though they committed a crime.

It is a widespread practice, and the only people who care are nurses.