Nurse fired for calling police

[Runman1914]

Last year while eating at local restuarant i witnessed an irate customer being removed by police for screaming at the staff. Last month i witness a patient daughter screaming at staff for more than a week , security called almost every day. She was 10 times worse than the restuarant customer. Each day the nurse manager and administration kissed her butt and apologized. She would make a scene , throw things, etc...

Everyday she was given a new nurse. Nurses were calling off like crazy to avoid this unpleaseasble daughter. Finally after multiple problems with this daughter it came to a head. She came into the nursing station and began to throw things. The charge nurse called the police and she had to be removed kicking and screaming. One week later the nurse was fired for not handling it internally!!!

[Truth66]

Unfortunately this doesn't surprise me. The level of violence that nurses are expected to tolerate has reached epidemic proportions. In fact last year the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation released a lengthy piece of research that they had done. They found that depending on the jurisdiction, based on Compensation Board Claims that Nurses were losing time off of work due to assaults at a rate three times higher than that of police officers.

I've worked in Long Term Care for over 12 years and yes I've had to call the police on a few ocaisions. Unfortunately Nurse Managers were none too happy with me. Irate patients and/or family members can definitely cause serious harm if not death because of their violence.

Several years ago at Casa Verde Nursing Home in Southern Ontario a cognitively impaired senior in his 70's attacked and killed two other seniors armed with a foot rest off of a wheelchair.

I'm hoping that the nurse who was fired is pursing a wrongful dismisal lawsuit against the employer. I'm sure her employer would've been quite upset if the aggressive person actually ended up killing somebody.

I still have no problem calling the police. I know some of my co-workers will object to me calling the police on a senior or anyone else. However, using a senior as an example, I always ask the same question, "Show me where in the Criminal Code that a person is exempt after age 65."

Violence is violence. If safe intervention means calling the police, so be it.

[ERRNJunkie]

This is where I will have to disagree. Any infraction of the law should result in an arrest. This is not the time to present any kind of letter. Citizen's have a duty to report crimes. They do not have the legal standing or expertise to determine if something was acceptable or not. Only a District Attorney or Attorney General can make this decision.

If you believe the person was grief stricken or that there were mitigating circumstances, you present the letter or evidence to the DA or police.

So you're saying that if someone came in waving a gun in your face, you might write a letter in their defense? I mean if they verbally threatened you and you felt they were grief stricken that's one thing. A gun? No thats a little beyond grief stricken.

[Diary/Dairy, RN]

yikes. I can't believe she was fired. She was trying to do the right thing and keep her coworkers safe. How can you hold that against someone. Security should have been called first because they can respond much faster than the police anyway... but still.

I hate that we as nurses are expected to put up with this kind of behavior from patient family members. I am sorry, but I am a professional, and I did not spend years getting my education to become a punching bag. There is no place for this kind of behavior and I think that people that can not act appropriately need to have restricted/and or police/security escorts when they come to the unit.

These individuals are toxic. We have at least 7 nurses that have left within the last 2 months because families are out of control and they are not going to deal with it. Everyones hands are tied, management included, because the higher ups are not understanding the frontline anymore. I feel bad for our floor managers because they often end up looking like they don't support their staff because of limitations placed upon them by upper management. I wish there was a solution that was CONSISTENT. Consistency is the biggest problem I feel.

I think there needs to be a "Difficult Visitor Pathway" lol.

Too bad she was fired though. That sends a terrible message to the staff.

Handling it internally?? Sounds like they weren't doing such a good job. Healthcare facilities areso afraid of lawsuits that they often forget their jobs, one of which is creating a safe enviornment for patients and staff. Hope that hospital is in a competetive marketplace. I would find a lawyer, file a wrongful termination (for defending herself?) lawsuit and make sure it makes the papers. Slant it to the "I was trying to protect my patients and staff" viewpoint and see what happens.I would never seek care in a facility that fired someone for trying to protect the floor from a crazy woman.....

The 2 of you took the words out of my mouth!

[FranEMTnurse, CNA, LPN, EMT-I]

Some administrators in hospitals are ridiculous! That poor nurse. They expect them to take everything from the public since the public is making the institution some money. Not me honey, not me. That nurse had every right to have that person arrested. She could have injured one of the staff. Good grief!!!! I suggest all hospitals put up huge signs in the entrance on each floor for all visitors to be quiet, and calm. If they ignore the rule then have them escorted out of the place. That way everyone is protected, and just maybe the staff would keep their jobs.

[grace90, LPN, LVN]

This hospital would have had a huge lawsuit to deal with if a patient or bystanding visitor got injured due to this lady being allowed to continue to act like a tantruming toddler. If I had a family member as a patient on a unit where that was going on, I'd be likely to call the police myself or at least file some serious complaints. Well, maybe I'd think twice about the complaints, because the hospital would probably turn on the nurses and fire them for the lady acting up so badly for so many days. I guess oen could call the press?

[Hospice RNCM]

The fired nurse should immediately contact an attorney, and, poss an investigative news agency from their local TV. What kind of msg does this send to other nurses who dpn't want to lose their jobs but don't want the hassle of dealing with an unreasonable family member? Nurses would resign on the spot rather than take the patient and risk doing or saying anything that wold cost them their job or license. Then where would that leave the facility ?

[htrn]

I will stick to where I am working - agreed, this is a small town, but check out this scenario....

I dial dispatch and say "Hi Sam, It's me over at the ER and Mr. X (a well known class a jerk known to throw things and threaten nurses) is signing into the ER." "No problem, I'll send friendly Officer Y over for a visit with you until he leaves."

On other occasions when they were unable to send an officer, they called me every 15 minutes to make sure I was OK until the patient left. When they come in from the field with unruly patients, I have heard them threated to tase them right in the bed if the patient gives any of the staff a hard time.

I am no ones punching bag and have flat out told patients that I will file assault charges when they threaten to hurt me.

[woody62, RN]

The last guy who threatened to harm a RN in my Dept was not treated. Meaning, there was reasonable fear for any RN to enter his room. Police were called, and no amount of threatening got him his "pain shot" he demanded. So, If I had been your RN I would have refused to treat you, and so would my MD's. Unless you were on a 5150, proven ALOC or your life was in danger. I find it appalling that you as an RN would ever threaten another RN. You can go ahead and not call the police on threatening patients/families and put yourself and innocent people in danger. Get thrown through a partition, have a gun waved in your face. Based on your comments here, I could care less. I do however care about your patients that you put in harms way.

Also, who says that when your life is threatened you have to follow policy's and procedures. I don't believe ANY hospital should tell you (or would tell you) that you cant do as any citizen has a right to do (calling the police).

When I call the police, I get 4-8 officers there with in 5 minutes, or less!

I have seen and heard of way too many bad incidences that are career ending, let alone some things that happened that were fatal. Im not taking my chances. And if someone lays a hand on me to harm me. I certainly will press charges! As I have in the past. I do not go to work every day to have to fight for my life. I'm there to help save lives. But no job is worth my life/limb or my coworkers being unsafe.

I cant believe you would write a letter in defense of some one who came at you with a gun, due to their anguish. I don't care what the circumstances are, there is NO excuse for behaving in this manner. EVER.

If I were you, I wouldn't continue threatening nurses/MD's, and please don't come to my hospital. I will have the police there as soon as you make a threat.

You're right on one account, you can refuse anything you want. I can also refuse to treat you based on threats.

Finally, get spell check. I hope your charting isn't as bad as your post is here.

First, I have been a terrible speller since the first grade. And I will be sixty-three in six days, it is too late for me to change. If my poor spelling upsets you that much, you have to comment, please skip reading my post. And I have been published, twice. And my charting was impeccable.

The two young men were arrested by the Albany Police Department and prosecuted. They both were found guilty and received five years each. I suppose you believe they should have received fifty years. You are right. You and I are very different. You most likely believe in the death penalty as well. I do not. I am rather glad the police didn't get there right a way. In all likelihood, guns would have gone off and people could have die. As it was, the lead officer came to my door and I told him I had the gun and handed it over to him. And asked that he give the brothers a few more minutes with their dying younger brother, which he did.

As far as you refusing to take care of a patient like me. I wouldn't want you to. You are always right, aren't you? If the patient does what you want, fine. But heaven help the patient who even slightly questions you. How dare a patient question you and what you are doing. Heaven forbid that a patient has a brain and the ability to think and question your actions. I found out something very important, that evening, I didn't have to sit there and take a being hurt. I have gone back to that ER several times. And I have never had to suffer the pain I suffered that night.

It is a good thing you did not work in the teaching hospital I was an administrative assistant in. We had written policies concerning calling outside help in. You would have been fired immediately and since we were a union hospital, not even the union would have been able to save you. In fact they would not have. You are an employee. As an employee, you have agreed to abide by the policies of your hospital. By not abiding, you open yourself up to any disciplinary action the hospital may take.

I have had the experience of being both a nurse and a patient. For the most part, the nurses were excellent, both in their skills and knowledge, as well as their ability to understand some of my needs. Some people could learn from them.

Woody:twocents:

[Atheos]

Just because your decision resulted in an ok outcome doesn't mean it was the right decision... That's what people are trying to tell you.

Doing the wrong thing for the right reason is still wrong.

If you had misread the situation and someone got hurt the blame would be on you. Not that it will ever happen but it could and no one gets to gamble my life away on a silly chance except for me...

The laws of the land ALWAYS come before the policies of a company. As evidenced by Enron...

[pyrazen]

I am feeling sympathy for nurses who have to take abusive crap. Anytime a staff member has been injured on the unit I work on, they are asked by our management if they want to file charges, not as a punnishment but to express to the patient that actions have consequences. I have been told by the director of the unit (when we have verbally disruptive or abusive family members who have been told to quit it) to just call the police if that person returns & goes off again, then call management when it is convenient/ safe for us to do so. Granted I work in psych, but even the mentally ill are accountable for their actions.

[blueheaven]

Our places of occupation are supposed to provide a safe environment for us to work in, when they neglect to do this, they need to be held accountable! Sounds like that nurse needs an attorney.

SHAME ON THAT FACILITY!!!

[neddylou63]

[color=#483d8b]"i wonder, 20 years ago, how did people behave in hospitals? was there ever a time when people were respectful of the staff and patients? if so, how long ago was that, anyway? "

[color=#483d8b]i graduated in 1984 and the vast majority of people were kind, respectful, and appreciative back then. i loved nursing, my patients, and most all the family members, and they loved me. by the time i left hospital nursing (icu) in 1998 to have my second child, there were family members sitting there with pens and paper, taking notes and trying to find something wrong. i think it was a gradual change that started getting worse in the early 90s and has gone downhill from there.

[color=#483d8b]i took five years off and now have been an elementary school nurse for the past 5 years. i am fortunate that i've only had a couple of incidents with parents in those 5 years, but some of my fellow school nurses in our county (there are 31 of us) have had terrible experiences. people are just crazy with unrealistic expectations and they complain about non-existent problems. luckily my principal always backs me up 100% so i know if i did have any sort of incident she'd be behind me. but you could not pay me enough to go back to a hospital and worry about getting mistreated and sued. i could make 3-4x what i'm now making if i worked in a hospital (our salary is abysmal, despite the responsibility and liability), but i just have no desire.

[color=#483d8b]i have recently been looking for a job i never thought i'd want--one where i do paperwork and don't have any contact with the public. it makes me so sad, but that's what i want to do now. if i could make enough money, i'd get out of nursing altogether...and you have no idea how much i loved my job before.

[color=#483d8b]gone are the days where the patient (and family members, who are worse) listen to the doctors and nurses with a trustful ear. as if any of us are there to do anything but the best for the patient. i guess no one is expected to have a true no-fault complication or die in today's world. sometimes things just happen, and it's not always someone's fault.