Why so closed minded? WHY? - page 9
Worked with a male nurse the other night. This nurse is agency and has worked at our facility for some time. He always gives good pt care and is helpful to the aides and other nurses. As I took V.S.... Read More
Aug 10, '02Occupation: Clinical Nurse level 2 Palliative Care Unit Joined: Sep '01; Posts: 8alwaysthere,
Wehave 2 male nurses in our unit on the whole they are well accepted by our female patients I think they are great and with a very few exceptions all male nurses I have worked with have been excellent, I think they can bring a stabilising effect in a prodominately female environment. We are going to have a new CNC position advertised soon and I think it would be great if a male got it. My elderest son is going to start his nursing degree next year and I think he would be great ( I;m not biased or anything!!)
Aug 11, '02Joined: ; Posts: n/aI had a similar instances with this. Our Doc called and a new CNA answered the unit phone with just a hello. He went bezerk on her to the point that she started to cry..I not only wrote it up but personally delievered it to the CEO's office where my aid recieved a personal apology.. We need to stick toghter..
WRITE HER UP
Aug 11, '02Occupation: CRNA Joined: Mar '02; Posts: 2,000; Likes: 66First, forgive me for what will probably be a long post.
As a male nurse, and now a CRNA, I have experienced the issues this question raises from a couple of different angles. Lets just say right up front, discrimination by another professional on the basis of gender, race, creed, sexual orientation, or anything else save professional ability, is wrong and unlawful. I know, the court in Oklahoma said a hospital could discriminate against a nurse based on gender in Ob/Gyn, but I would guess that if the nurse involved appealed to a higher court, he would win.
On the other hand, whether you want to call it discrimination, preference, culture, or anything else, a patient's desire to be cared for only by a nurse who meets qualification X, based on gender, race, creed, sexual orientation, etc, is that patient's absolute right. We are not nurses, we do not work where we do, to change people's minds about anything. Our job is to provide the best possible care for our patients, and if that means assigning only female nurses to Mrs Smith because she is uncomfortable with male nurses, then we assign only female nurses to her. Although it ain't always the case, the birth of a baby should be as joyful an experience as we can make it, and if that includes no male nurses, then we have no right to interfere with what the patient needs to meet her expectations.
When I was in nursing school, my OB instructor hated males in nursing, and would do whatever she could to discourage males from continuing in the nursing program. She would give bad grades, deserved or not, if she could get away with it. She once assigned me to care for a post partum woman of middle eastern origin. This patient and her husband had gone out of their way to ensure that all the patient's caregivers, including nurses, aides, and the OB/GYN were women. That is their culture, and they had a right to live as their culture dictated.
I won't go into any more long stories about nursing school, but suffice to say that semester was so bad that I came very close to quitting nursing school, and changing my major to almost anything else. Looking back, I realized that experience even tainted my career as a staff nurse in the SICU. I was so jaded and hurt by that one semester that I stopped enjoying nursing altogether. I didn't really begin to enjoy it again until I was a CRNA student, working in the OR.
When I started my CRNA school, I knew I had to do a rotation in OB, and I dreaded it. I just knew it would be a repeat of what I had experienced in nursing school. But when I did my OB rotation, the difference was night and day. What a joy it was. I experienced exactly what I had come into anesthesia for, first hand. When I entered rooms, patients were in pain. When I left, I was superman in their eyes, because they didn't hurt anymore. The staff nurses and CRNA's I worked with were great! I couldn't believe it. Where I work now, my group does not do any OB, but I would have no problem working OB in any future job.
OK, so I'm off track a little bit. The point is that we must all remember two things. First, and most important, the desires of the patient are paramount. If a woman in labor (or any one else) wishes to have a female nurse, that is their right. I don't care if you call it discrimination, or anything else. It is the patient's right. Second, we must all remember that as nurses, our attitudes and preconceived notions will affect those who work around us. We must not discriminate against any nurse for any reason, save professional ability. You never know how your actions, good or bad, may affect a student or fellow nurse.
Aug 11, '02Joined: Dec '01; Posts: 123; Likes: 10One of the earlier respondents mentioned of coworkers "prepping " patients by mentioning a male nurse was inbound. I won't do that because my experience in a previous vocation shows that when someone does that, they are sometimes prematurely highlighting the gender (race, age, experience, rank, etc.) issue needlessly.
Some folks are reluctant to complain, are unassertive or shy, etc. I like those types as I can sometimes sort of "steam roller'em before they realize what happened. They sometimes become "alive", couragious, assertive when someone else's actions/opinions seems to coincide with theirs--safety in numbers. Alone, they might be reticent to ask for a white technician with whom to deal with, but suddenly become more brazen if another grouses how he/she doesn't like dealing with blacks. Making sense?
Often, I did what I needed to do, disengaged, and left the individual to mull over the experience and perhaps alter their views accordingly. It didn't/doesn't always work. However, I'd prefer not to poison the atmosphere prematurely. Instead, I'd just as soon prefer to show up, present myself, and take it from there. To do otherwise may just be setting yourself up for needless aggravation. Food for thought...
Aug 11, '02Joined: ; Posts: n/aOriginally posted by kmchugh
Our job is to provide the best possible care for our patients, and if that means assigning only female nurses to Mrs Smith because she is uncomfortable with male nurses, then we assign only female nurses to her. Although it ain't always the case, the birth of a baby should be as joyful an experience as we can make it, and if that includes no male nurses, then we have no right to interfere with what the patient needs to meet her expectations.
If a woman in labor (or any one else) wishes to have a female nurse, that is their right. I don't care if you call it discrimination, or anything else. It is the patient's right. Second, we must all remember that as nurses, our attitudes and preconceived notions will affect those who work around us. We must not discriminate against any nurse for any reason, save professional ability. You never know how your actions, good or bad, may affect a student or fellow nurse.
Great points here Kevin. I wonder about a guy who needs to work women's services anyway. What are they trying to prove?
Why not go to a more comfortable setting rather than stay there...is it just to prove their own point or advance their own agenda? Got to wonder.
Bet the nurses who are warning of a male nurse there have been getting flack for the guy even being there at all. Women (and I'm not bashing da girls here)tend to say say things to other women they wouldn't to the male. They do it with docs too. Patients seem to find it easier to complain to a female nurse rather than 'bother' the guy...doc or nurse. Don't know why.
OB rotation in school was pretty cool. The instructors excused us from the personal care and hey, I was just as glad. Too much room for accusations, and I could see I made the ladies uncomfortable for the most part. Why would I push myself into that kind of experience? Not me.
Aug 11, '02Joined: Jul '02; Posts: 134; Likes: 3L&D would obviously be the most sensitive area as far as women being "uncomfortable" with male nurses, although I really can't explain why.
As far as gender scheduling per the patient's preference, would you schedule a white nurse if a patient said they didn't want a black RN? How about an Asian caretaker?
Of course if your facility has protocols relating to patient satisfaction that address this, so be it. But isn't part of our job education?
Aug 11, '02Occupation: registered nurse Joined: Nov '01; Posts: 1,083; Likes: 14well cranky old nurse, you seem the be very misguided. i have no agenda to promote other than bieng treated fairly. i always let my patients choose if i can be their nurse i always introduce my self than ask if it is ok if i am their nurse. i got into ob because of patients and instructors request that i do it. i originally planned to become a crna. but once i tried this i truely loved it. the response from my patients has been overwhelming. and so has the majority of nurses i work with. i am told some compliment daily from the staff i am woith now. the only problem i ever had was a couple of doctors but they got over it.
nurses are professionals just like obgyns are. so why do you think it is ok the be a male ob/gyn and not ok to be a male ob/gyn nurse.? there is the old stereo typing again.
my patients are more than comfortable with me many request me on return visits, and as far as the personal care issue goes i let them choose either i can do it or i can get a female tech to do it for them, never had one refuse my care. i think it is mostly how one presents them self, if you are confident and professional they will respect you and be very relaxed around you. one of the docs that had issues with me came to me resently and appologized we now work together with out a problem. his change of attitude came about because several of his patients went back to him and told him how good the care was i provided them.
the real issue that is being talked about here is not the patients right . but discrimination against male nurses by coworkers and administration. i have always said the patient has a right to choose if i can be their nurse. administration and othernurses are trying to promote there agendas by discriminating against males. any form of discrimination is wrong and should not be tolerated.
ex130load- i don't like others to introduce me, i prefer to do it myself, so i can see if they are uncomfortable and ask their permission.and by the way i when i worked other areas i also asked my male patients if i could be their nurse. and the only patients ever to refuse my care were males this has only happened 2 times in my carreer so far.
nurses just need to act professional and support each other. don;t you think the backstabbing and discrimination has gone on long enough?
oh yes, kevin i do not need to work in ob, i have worked in every area of nursing just about, i do this because i am very good at it and my patients love me, if they did not i would go on to do other things and would probably pursue my crna. so wonder all you like, i am sorry you lack the confidence and or professionallism to not have to wonder and to be afraid to care for female patients.Last edit by mark_LD_RN on Aug 11, '02
Aug 11, '02Occupation: registered nurse Joined: Nov '01; Posts: 1,083; Likes: 14that seems pretty light to me! I am sorry you see it differently. But his implied message with statements like " just have too wonder why a male has to work OB". is really irritating to me. so is the statement that i am trying to promote an agenda. I became a nurses because i wanted to. I work L&D because I enjoy it and my patients do also. and in the opinion of my patients and many of my coworkers i am one of the best L&D/ob nurses around. thats why i do it and for no other reason. nurses should support each other,not make unprofessional insinuations. does he question why a male wants to be a ob DOC? that seems to be accepted and expected. but oh my god a "male" OB nurse ,how can that be.if he is uncomfortable with it that is his perrogative, but don't be impling anything else.Last edit by mark_LD_RN on Aug 11, '02
Aug 11, '02Joined: ; Posts: n/aGo ahead and get irritated. I just call things like I see it. No misguided feelings or lack of confidence here. None at all.
Aug 11, '02Occupation: registered nurse Joined: Nov '01; Posts: 1,083; Likes: 14maybe you need glasses . or just an open mind.
Aug 11, '02Occupation: nurse Joined: Jul '02; Posts: 42gee Crankyold nurse, do you not feel as nurses are professionals? why should it be an issue, i work with many male nurses and have found them to be very kind caring and actually prefer them.
you really should not infer that there is something wrong with a male working OB. there is nothing wrong with it . no different than female nurses doing personal care on males. for crying out loud, you'll should be supportive, noit try to cut your fellow nurses down.
any way keep up the good work mark I am sure your patients appreciate you. You can be my nurse anytime!
Aug 11, '02Occupation: RN in L&D Joined: Nov '01; Posts: 720; Likes: 185kmchugh
Very good points! I agree that it is the patient's right to refuse care no matter what their reasons. Even if they are wrong and no matter how distasteful there reasons it's their body.
I still place "preference" for male or female providers in the same category as "preference" of race but its their choice.Last edit by Dayray on Aug 12, '02