Why so closed minded? WHY?

NMAguiar · Aug 9, 2002

I've always considered myself to be on the receiving end of undue respect more often than criticism.

Sure, occasionally I get the questions: Are you gay? Weren't you smart enough to be a doctor? But mostly patients -- I believe -- tend to associate male nurses with doctors lending to more respect and trust than a female gets from the same individuals.

There have been plenty of "problem patients" that joined the program when I walked into the room.

This is not to say females get less respect. This is only my feeling with patients that are narrow-minded enough to notice -- then the respect issuegoes both ways.

live4today, RN · Aug 9, 2002

one fact that we have not addressed here is that most states are a "right to work....right not to hire......right to quit without notice...states". in these states (north carolina for example), an employer does not have to give an applicant a reason for not hiring them.....nor do they have to give a reason for firing them when they are fired....and vice versa......no employee has to give a reason for quitting a job, or for refusing a job. any form of discrimination going around a place of employment is strictly "hear say" in a court of law based on the above rules for those states that honor this ruling, and to my knowledge, montana is the only state that does not fall under this ruling. saying that......yes......discrimination exist......big time.......but employers are getting away with it big time because they can....based on the "right to hire/fire" rule. sad....but true.

dayray.....mark......other nurses who are men.....as someone who is looked upon in america as a "minority"........i "feel" your pain.....only no matter what area of nursing i work in......i have faced discrimination based on the "skin color" issue, and there isn't a soap in the world that can wash that away. :kiss

JailRN · Aug 9, 2002

My husband complains about the same things. He's a 2nd semester student, and in his whites and lab caot, the patients call him "Doctor." (sigh...put a middle aged man in a white lab coat and everyone assumes he's a doctor) Worse than that is when he introduces himself to his patients, his name is "Doug,"

but they think he's saying "Doc". It's the PA. dutch accent that even after 30 yrs in LA ,he can't shake.

God Bless the nurses-girls and boys.

Brownms46 · Aug 9, 2002

It's one thing not to give someone a job, and NOT state the reason. It's quite another when a nurse manager actually states a reason...such as someone being male!

LasVegasRN · Aug 9, 2002

Someone mentioned narcissism earlier. I like Lord Byron's take on that word:

"Self-love for ever creeps out, like a snake, to sting anything which happens . . . to stumble upon it."

Lord Byron (1788-1824), English poet. Ravenna Journal (published in Byron's Letters and Journals, vol. 8, ed. by Leslie A. Marchand, 1973-81), entry for 11 Jan. 1821.

mark_LD_RN · Aug 9, 2002

yes it is ridiculous that this is a topic at all. why is it ok to be a male ob/gyn but not a male ob nurse?

as far as why would a male want to do it. It choose me ,i planned on being a CRNA but in school my patients in L&D and OB loved me so much that my instuctor asked me to try precepting in that area. have been in love with it ever since. the response i get from patients and family has been so special to me that there is nothing else in the world i would rather do.

and it is not like people think,I see my patient as a person not as any anatomical part. I don't see why some people would think otherwise.

live4today, RN · Aug 10, 2002

Originally posted by Mark...
and it is not like people think,I see my patient as a person not as any anatomical part. I don't see why some people would think otherwise. [/b]

Mark.........SOME men DO see the ANATOMICAL part and NOT the WOMAN giving birth. SOME men do NOT even like their WIVES to BREASTFEED because THOSE SAME MEN see their wives BREAST as ANATOMICAL SEX OBJECTS ONLY!!! :rolleyes: Having said that.......SOME nurses who are males (and anymore some females since not all females love or like men) DO know how to view their female patients as female patients and not sex objects.

Americans are NOT known for their GRACEFUL side when it comes to how we think about sex and the human body. You just continue being the wonderful nurse that you are, keeping it all in perspective as you give your professional self to your patients, and don't worry about the CATTALK that you are no doubt going to hear coming from nurses who are female who don't think you should be helping women deliver babies. Heck.....I had three children......two delivered by male docs, and one delivered by a female doc. Why would I object to having a L&D nurse who is male? :confused: I wish you the best, Mark. Trust your own professionalism to continue making you the shining nurse to your patients, and pray for those nurses who are JEALOUS they didn't get to have a male nurse in their day. :chuckle :kiss

mark_LD_RN · Aug 10, 2002

thanks cheerful that is so sweet of you to say.:)

Jenni Shand · Aug 10, 2002

alwaysthere,

Wehave 2 male nurses in our unit on the whole they are well accepted by our female patients I think they are great and with a very few exceptions all male nurses I have worked with have been excellent, I think they can bring a stabilising effect in a prodominately female environment. We are going to have a new CNC position advertised soon and I think it would be great if a male got it. My elderest son is going to start his nursing degree next year and I think he would be great ( I;m not biased or anything!!)

MQ Edna · Aug 11, 2002

I had a similar instances with this. Our Doc called and a new CNA answered the unit phone with just a hello. He went bezerk on her to the point that she started to cry..I not only wrote it up but personally delievered it to the CEO's office where my aid recieved a personal apology.. We need to stick toghter..

WRITE HER UP:nono: :nono: :nono: :nono:

kmchugh · Aug 11, 2002

First, forgive me for what will probably be a long post.

As a male nurse, and now a CRNA, I have experienced the issues this question raises from a couple of different angles. Lets just say right up front, discrimination by another professional on the basis of gender, race, creed, sexual orientation, or anything else save professional ability, is wrong and unlawful. I know, the court in Oklahoma said a hospital could discriminate against a nurse based on gender in Ob/Gyn, but I would guess that if the nurse involved appealed to a higher court, he would win.

On the other hand, whether you want to call it discrimination, preference, culture, or anything else, a patient's desire to be cared for only by a nurse who meets qualification X, based on gender, race, creed, sexual orientation, etc, is that patient's absolute right. We are not nurses, we do not work where we do, to change people's minds about anything. Our job is to provide the best possible care for our patients, and if that means assigning only female nurses to Mrs Smith because she is uncomfortable with male nurses, then we assign only female nurses to her. Although it ain't always the case, the birth of a baby should be as joyful an experience as we can make it, and if that includes no male nurses, then we have no right to interfere with what the patient needs to meet her expectations.

When I was in nursing school, my OB instructor hated males in nursing, and would do whatever she could to discourage males from continuing in the nursing program. She would give bad grades, deserved or not, if she could get away with it. She once assigned me to care for a post partum woman of middle eastern origin. This patient and her husband had gone out of their way to ensure that all the patient's caregivers, including nurses, aides, and the OB/GYN were women. That is their culture, and they had a right to live as their culture dictated.

I won't go into any more long stories about nursing school, but suffice to say that semester was so bad that I came very close to quitting nursing school, and changing my major to almost anything else. Looking back, I realized that experience even tainted my career as a staff nurse in the SICU. I was so jaded and hurt by that one semester that I stopped enjoying nursing altogether. I didn't really begin to enjoy it again until I was a CRNA student, working in the OR.

When I started my CRNA school, I knew I had to do a rotation in OB, and I dreaded it. I just knew it would be a repeat of what I had experienced in nursing school. But when I did my OB rotation, the difference was night and day. What a joy it was. I experienced exactly what I had come into anesthesia for, first hand. When I entered rooms, patients were in pain. When I left, I was superman in their eyes, because they didn't hurt anymore. The staff nurses and CRNA's I worked with were great! I couldn't believe it. Where I work now, my group does not do any OB, but I would have no problem working OB in any future job.

OK, so I'm off track a little bit. The point is that we must all remember two things. First, and most important, the desires of the patient are paramount. If a woman in labor (or any one else) wishes to have a female nurse, that is their right. I don't care if you call it discrimination, or anything else. It is the patient's right. Second, we must all remember that as nurses, our attitudes and preconceived notions will affect those who work around us. We must not discriminate against any nurse for any reason, save professional ability. You never know how your actions, good or bad, may affect a student or fellow nurse.

Kevin McHugh

Ex130Load · Aug 11, 2002

One of the earlier respondents mentioned of coworkers "prepping " patients by mentioning a male nurse was inbound. I won't do that because my experience in a previous vocation shows that when someone does that, they are sometimes prematurely highlighting the gender (race, age, experience, rank, etc.) issue needlessly.

Some folks are reluctant to complain, are unassertive or shy, etc. I like those types as I can sometimes sort of "steam roller'em before they realize what happened. They sometimes become "alive", couragious, assertive when someone else's actions/opinions seems to coincide with theirs--safety in numbers. Alone, they might be reticent to ask for a white technician with whom to deal with, but suddenly become more brazen if another grouses how he/she doesn't like dealing with blacks. Making sense?

Often, I did what I needed to do, disengaged, and left the individual to mull over the experience and perhaps alter their views accordingly. It didn't/doesn't always work. However, I'd prefer not to poison the atmosphere prematurely. Instead, I'd just as soon prefer to show up, present myself, and take it from there. To do otherwise may just be setting yourself up for needless aggravation. Food for thought...