Nurse doing cocaine HELP

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A very close male friend has a new girlfriend. She is an ICU nurse. I have only met her twice and my friend states he is in love with her. I have a big big problem. The last time we went out she broke out a bag of coke. She admitted to me she had a drinking problem as a young teen. From what I saw she still has it. She did mix coke and alcohol that night. My friend told me she doesn't do coke on the days she works. I don't know if I believe that or not. I know where she works. I know her Director. If I tell even without using my name they will know it's me. I will loose my friend who means the world to me, but the ethical and professional in me is giving me the kick. It's been bothering me for a long time. I would like some other opinions before I make up my mind. I know what I should do and I know what will happen if I do it. HELP.

Lori

Specializes in Intermediate Care.

Contrary to popular belief, not all cocaine users are addicted, but a good majority of them are.

Judging by the large quantity of "nose candy" Lori reported to be in this woman's possession, it's highly likely that this woman is addicted.

I'm interested to hear how Lori handled this, if at all.

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Specializes in ER, ICU, L&D, OR.
Hi Teeituptom,

I respect your view to dislike the use of drugs or smoking. However I myself do not prefer to bring the morality angle into addictions. Dabbling is a personal choice or preference YET, not one that I would personally choose.

I would not 'blame' an addict for being addicted. I did at one time though, (I live in the lower-income housing complex and for a period of time was totally repulsed at the sight of heroin addicts, crack addicts, alcoholics, prostitutes and so on). Ugh, the detest I felt....is gone now.

Thankfully, now I can deal with the things that I am able to help with.

Gen

p.s. I do wonder though, why the op never made it back to give an update and why the op continues to 'enable' her friend through all of his addictions, (marijuana, sex and so on).

Unfortunately morality also figures into. For example, a few months ago I took care of a young guy, late 20 s who hit a car while driving. The father was killed, the mother was paralyzed, the children had relatively minor injuries.And the entire time the guy was in ER, no injuries of course, I took care of him, and not once did he ask about the family or how they were and he didnt even express remorse. All he did was whine about how much trouble he was in. I also took care of the mother at the same time, and really had to take care about my attitude towards him.

So, yes morality enters into it, as most addicts of whatever nature always seem to be so self centered as to not care about the havoc,death,and injuries they inflict on others. Thus addiction is immoral by its own merit.

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I'm not a nurse yet but worked with many...If I were in your position, I would

definitely stay anonymous and report it ASAP. Test the phone line you call from if dropping a dime, (caller ID, etc. I would not confide in anyone, not a soul, not HR...stay anonymous all the way. Although I do feel sorry for her as she is in need of help, you would only be helping save her and who knows how many other innocent people. This problem is not limited to just her patients but to anyone in her path. You would also never forgive yourself if something terrible happens and it will eventually. I wouldn't worry too much about friendships here, doesn't sound like they had any respect for you when they took the stuff out... besides, staying anon. will spare you this worry. Not that you are being revengeful in any way, just a responsible adult. You can ask what they will do if she is caught on a random drug test if it makes you feel better. Most likely, they will offer her rehab. Regardless, she made her choices and poor choices have consequences. Hopefully, it won't be a life lost, or maybe many lives.

I hope this helps, good luck. ;)

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Specializes in Ortho, Med surg and L&D.
Unfortunately morality also figures into. For example, a few months ago I took care of a young guy, late 20 s who hit a car while driving. The father was killed, the mother was paralyzed, the children had relatively minor injuries.And the entire time the guy was in ER, no injuries of course, I took care of him, and not once did he ask about the family or how they were and he didnt even express remorse. All he did was whine about how much trouble he was in. I also took care of the mother at the same time, and really had to take care about my attitude towards him.

So, yes morality enters into it, as most addicts of whatever nature always seem to be so self centered as to not care about the havoc,death,and injuries they inflict on others. Thus addiction is immoral by its own merit.

Hi,

Well this guy definately falls into the 'lacking any empathy' category. He sounds so narcissistic that I myself must refrain from commenting.

Oh, as for his addiciton. I thought about this again and was figuring the whole morality as the middles of extremes between excess and deficit. In this case then such an excess of anything is as immoral as is a deficit of it.

Regarding this patient who was not only in such excess of drugs to become addicted but he also was immmoral in his lack of empathy and care for (not only a fellow human being) but his ownself and his family members. Sounds like that character was the common definition of sociopath. Bleck!

However, I still choose not to blame and addict for being addicted yet for giving in to the excess of becoming addicted...its not so clear for me Tom.

If I am not wrong you and I have disagreed before and if I recall correctly, you did not welcome my option to disagree as easily and respectfully as I do for you. This will be my last post to you in this thread, (unless of course you choose to ask me to reply, then I will out of respect.)

Gen

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Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.
I have problems with people who smoke and do drugs. There is no recreational use of cocaine, use of cocaine is a problem. Its an illegal one and an immoral one. And some guy who is dating a girl who us

As long as people view addictions as a "moral" problem, we'll never move on in treating these people. Some addicts are moral people and some aren't. It's their BEHAVIOR that makes everybody around them miserable. One of the reasons people become addicted is because they ascribe too much power to themselves or to others. This struggle preoccupies them constantly. They do become selfish and self-centered , as do many people with emotional problems. Of course, there are plenty of folks who were jerks before they become addicted and they only get a lot worst. But most people after recovery regain their sense of compassion for others since they are not dominated by drug seeking behaviors. I did care for a young man once who tried to commit suicide after killing someone in a MVA. I don't know what he acted like in the ER - if he were stoned I'm sure he didn't show much emotion - but that doesn't mean that he's "immoral." That MVA destroyed two lives, not just the person who was killed.

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Specializes in ER/Trauma.
I have problems with people who smoke and do drugs. There is no recreational use of cocaine, use of cocaine is a problem. Its an illegal one and an immoral one. And some guy who is dating a girl who uses also more than likely uses himself. Druggies dont openly share their secret of drug use with non druggies, for numerous reasons.
Sorry Tom.

I don't see how it is a "moral" problem.

My brother was an addict - other than the habit (which he has now thankfully kicked) and his temper... he is about as moral and upstanding gentleman I know.

I see no difference between people who drink alcohol, smoke cigarettes, do pot, mainline Heroin or snort coke.

They are ALL recreational drugs. They ALL alter and affect our moods. They ALL affect our health.

You may very well disagree with recreational drug use - that's certainly your opinion.

But calling drug use or abuse as "immoral" is a stretch. I don't say this because I'm trying to defend my brother - quite honestly, we don't really get along very well. I only use his exmaple because it is the most readily available one for me.

Yes, he choose to abuse drugs and he became hooked onto them. I agree that it was completely his responsibility. It is my responsibility that I was hooked onto booze and cigarettes (thankfully stopped smoking).

But the guy screwed up, admitted to his mistake. He never stole a penny nor harmed a fly when he was hooked. I fail to see how this addiciton of his makes him "immoral". He knew the consequences and he took responsibility for his actions.

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You don't work with her. You have no knowledge regarding her work performance. You in fact have no direct knowledge of her alleged "habit" other than what your male friend told you, which is hearsay. She used cocaine once in your presence, at a non-work location. I don't believe that that, in itself, is grounds for discipline or discharge, even if proven; that would depend on the nature of the employer (public or private), the state you are in (worker protection laws vary), and whether she is protected by a union agreement.

Cocaine is excreted in the urine primarily as benzoylecgonine. Benzoylecgonine has a longer biological half-life (5-8 hours) than cocaine (0.5-1.5 hours), but can only be detected for about 24-48 hours after cocaine use.

If you make any statements to this woman's employer, and disciplinary action is taken against her, she will likely learn your identity in the course of legal proceedings (as she will almost certainly contest a discharge). Then she may initiate legal action against you for defamation.

It comes through crystal-clear that you don't like this woman and that you view yourself as your friend's savior. However, my advice is to do nothing. You're not responsible for all the ills in the world, and you risk involving yourself in legal proceedings that will likely be resolved in the woman's favor (i.e., she won't be fired and she will sue you).

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Addiction is amoral. Having a body chemistry that predisposes you to become dependent on drugs or alcohol is not something you have a choice about. Growing up with bad examples and unfortunate exposure is a choice but one other people make for you. Having traumatic experiences (physical or emotional) that put you in need of pain relief is rarely an experience one volunteers for. Where there is no capacity or opportunity to choose, there can be no moral imperative.

Even so, addiction does not excuse the addict or relieve him or her of choices regarding the addiction (whether or not to admit having one, if and when to seek help, how honest and committed to be, etc.). Nor does it relieve the addict from making every day choices such as whether or not to drive or work impaired, how to spend money, which people to hang out with, and many more.

This is what I call a "walking dilemma." Do you walk with your right foot or your left? If you want to cover any ground, you use both. Is addiction/addictive behavior an illness or a choice? Yes. The state of being addicted is not a choice. Deciding what to do about it is a thousand choices, each made one at a time.

I think the true moral issue connected with addiction is how honest the addict is willing to be since any meaningful progress involves being willing to humble yourself and see what's real. The immorality of addiction, then, is the clinging to self-delusion and rationalization in the face of powerful evidence to the contrary. An addict who allows himself to stop running and be laid low by the truth has done a courageous, and yes, moral thing.

Miranda

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Sad situation indeed. Here is what I would do if this was my friend: Since I value my friendships and consider them great blessings, I would have to put my personal feeings aside and alert the authorities...............for the sake of my friend!! Who is to say that this gal is not 'slipping your friend something'?? I know that you can be infatuated with someone, but if some of the 'air' were let out of the balloon..........not having anybody to 'share' this new love with.......mainly you, I believe that the reality will hit alot faster.

Your friend may be upset or even ticked off at you..........at first, but I truly believe that in the long run, he will thank you and your friendship will be even stronger. When he realizes that his best interest and safety is at the center of this situation, HE WILL THANK YOU !!!!

What if this 'lady' does her thing, gets into a car and has an accident, killing your friend and possibly others? How would you feel? What if this 'lady' hurt someone or even killed someone (a patient) at work? I personally could not live with myself knowing that I could have prevented something such as this. You owe it to yourself and all of those that are around this 'wacko' to get her off the street, from behind the wheel of a car, caring for others.

If you let it slide by someone's 'blood' could be on your hands too.

I wish you all the luck in the world. I know that you will make the right decision. Good luck and God Bless!! Please keep us posted.

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She used cocaine once in your presence, at a non-work location. I don't believe that that, in itself, is grounds for discipline or discharge, even if proven; that would depend on the nature of the employer (public or private), the state you are in (worker protection laws vary), and whether she is protected by a union agreement.).

It's grounds for arrest and incarceration. It's illegal and that is one of the bottom lines. The other being that this person shows poor judgement. An individual does not pull out a bag of cocaine in front of a stranger unless that person's judgement is clouded. This is absolutely indisputable. She is messing with her life and even if she has NEVER used cocaine before work and/or this was her first time to ever use, based solely on what the OP described in her personal eyewitness account is by a reasonable use of logic highly not the case. And let's say she is the

Thankfully a great majority of the posters have recommended that the OP report this behavior in some manner; unfortunately it appears we'll never hear what the OP does for whatever reason.

If you make any statements to this woman's employer, and disciplinary action is taken against her, she will likely learn your identity in the course of legal proceedings (as she will almost certainly contest a discharge). Then she may initiate legal action against you for defamation.

Why should the OP be concerned? If she used, she used. If she plans on taking the OP to court...let her. The truth will come out. Defamation of character only applies if the lady never actually pulled out a bag of cocaine and snorted it. And more than likely the BON will back this woman up because many (if not all) say that as a RN you are to report such behavior. Assuming that the OP is being truthful about her eyewitness account, it doesn't matter what the OP's motives are, she still witnessed what she witnessed. All the OP has to do is state facts. She has absolutely nothing to fear. Good grief, the alternative is to ignore it and if/when the individual's poor judgement results in the death of a patient or other tragic event, then the OP has to live with the guilt that she could have done something about it.

You're not responsible for all the ills in the world

I agree, but no matter how unfortunate, this bag of problems was dumped in her lap, so to speak. And when the problem is this serious (and make no mistake about it, this is a very serious issue) there is no worse action than to take no action at all.

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You don't work with her. You have no knowledge regarding her work performance. You in fact have no direct knowledge of her alleged "habit" other than what your male friend told you, which is hearsay. She used cocaine once in your presence, at a non-work location. I don't believe that that, in itself, is grounds for discipline or discharge, even if proven; that would depend on the nature of the employer (public or private), the state you are in (worker protection laws vary), and whether she is protected by a union agreement.

Cocaine is excreted in the urine primarily as benzoylecgonine. Benzoylecgonine has a longer biological half-life (5-8 hours) than cocaine (0.5-1.5 hours), but can only be detected for about 24-48 hours after cocaine use.

If you make any statements to this woman's employer, and disciplinary action is taken against her, she will likely learn your identity in the course of legal proceedings (as she will almost certainly contest a discharge). Then she may initiate legal action against you for defamation.

It comes through crystal-clear that you don't like this woman and that you view yourself as your friend's savior. However, my advice is to do nothing. You're not responsible for all the ills in the world, and you risk involving yourself in legal proceedings that will likely be resolved in the woman's favor (i.e., she won't be fired and she will sue you).

No one uses cocaine once! To think so is folly. If this woman is using, then she is hooked. If she is a health care provider, she should NOT be using at all. Substance use impairs your judgement. She should be reported. I work in home health as well as OB and I often follow my patients into the community. My addicts have not used only once. They continue to do so over and over. That's why they are already in treatment programs and/or that is part of my job in the home (to get them into programs).They have impaired judgement, no question, or they would not have been using while pregnant.

Why do we think it is okay NOT to report this nurse? Our society is far too lenient on professionals.

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Why do we think it is okay NOT to report this nurse? Our society is far too lenient on professionals.

I sincerely hope noone thinks it's "okay NOT to report this nurse". I suspect the biggest reason people are encouraging the OP to not report the illegal activity is out of fear of litigation. We are becoming a society which doesn't want to take action out of fear of appearing before a judge and jury and having to justify why we did the right thing. Sooooo very unfortunate.

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